Simple cleaning rod question.

Chism G said:
I think…Way too much concern about possible bore damage from cleaning rods. What do you think happens when you send a bullet down the bore of your expensive barrel at 3300 ft per second. There is not a cleaning rod made that can duplicate the damage caused by one fired round. Get a good cleaning rod guide and use a little common sense when using your cleaning rod.



Glenn
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Agreed!

FWIW, I just tried the above test, rubbing a carbon fiber rod against the outside of a barrel stub, and did NOT see the same results. I used a lot of pressure and shorts strokes for as long as my arm would hold out. It did nothing noticeable to the stub.

Personally, I don't care what others use. I use both cf, coated and polished ss rods...and feel confident that with a good guide, there are far more important things to worry ourselves with.

Let's shoot!
 
mwezell said:
Agreed!

FWIW, I just tried the above test, rubbing a carbon fiber rod against the outside of a barrel stub, and did NOT see the same results. I used a lot of pressure and shorts strokes for as long as my arm would hold out. It did nothing noticeable to the stub.

Personally, I don't care what others use. I use both cf, coated and polished ss rods...and feel confident that with a good guide, there are far more important things to worry ourselves with.

Let's shoot!
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I'm a good listener but have this What if thing ingrained in my brain. It's easy to say don't sweat the small stuff lets shoot but on the other side you can read from the so called best of the best that the only rod to use is such and made by so and so. Then you hear the horror stories of certain rods (same story, different years, different forums) that will kill you . To me I can't help thinking some are getting a bum wrap because of new to the block thing. I've done this in the past with 8 track to cassette tape.
I use both carbon and steel rods. It has been good input and all but almost the same as I have heard in the past ,same pros and cons.(no bash to anybody).
I know cleaning rod makes of all brands don't just go putting stuff on the market on a willy nilly. For me it sure would a good reading with pictures of course to see and listen to a barrel maker or rod maker that did a controlled study of the mix up in products, not the finger nail study in my shop thing. I know there is one out there waiting to be read. Maybe not released for trade secret , don't want to be banned from market, I don't know but it would get rid of a few hear say ideas.
Just a morning thought, Happy 4th
 
That's kinda what were saying (make that what I'm saying). If you use a cleaning rod correctly there's no appreciable difference in the end result - regardless of which rod you use.

The rod guides are time savers in terms of the right way to clean. I confess, that I don't (might not) know the "right way" but I think I do and that's OK with me.
 
tcjones said:
I'm a good listener but have this What if thing ingrained in my brain. It's easy to say don't sweat the small stuff lets shoot but on the other side you can read from the so called best of the best that the only rod to use is such and made by so and so. Then you hear the horror stories of certain rods (same story, different years, different forums) that will kill you . To me I can't help thinking some are getting a bum wrap because of new to the block thing. I've done this in the past with 8 track to cassette tape.
I use both carbon and steel rods. It has been good input and all but almost the same as I have heard in the past ,same pros and cons.(no bash to anybody).
I know cleaning rod makes of all brands don't just go putting stuff on the market on a willy nilly. For me it sure would a good reading with pictures of course to see and listen to a barrel maker or rod maker that did a controlled study of the mix up in products, not the finger nail study in my shop thing. I know there is one out there waiting to be read. Maybe not released for trade secret , don't want to be banned from market, I don't know but it would get rid of a few hear say ideas.
Just a morning thought, Happy 4th
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Why not do it yourself? I'm sure that we'd all read it with the same interest as this thread, at least...particularly if you can conclusively determine what happens and how long it takes at what pressure and speed...etc.
I spend thousands of dollars and countless hours proving things to my satisfaction and sometimes, to others. It's someone else's turn to do it, now, or at least to your satisfaction, suit yourself. Google might be of use in determining friction coefficients. Just a thought. Maybe you could lay up a carbon fiber bandsaw blade and tell us how it works on ss...

I look forward to hearing your findings if you pursue it. Have a great holiday weekend!
 
I was being lazy at the fist of the post and wanted to get a feel and survey or just google or youtube an answer. Maybe it's not out there yet and your suggestion is my answer.
We'll see, right now I'm messing with a stuborn chain saw and planning a cook out. Good ideas and thoughts, thanks guys.
Tom
 
tcjones said:
I was being lazy at the fist of the post and wanted to get a feel and survey or just google or youtube an answer. Maybe it's not out there yet and your suggestion is my answer.
We'll see, right now I'm messing with a stuborn chain saw and planning a cook out. Good ideas and thoughts, thanks guys.
Tom
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If you're looking for quantitative numbers as to which is best and by how much, yes, a more scientific approach is needed. By deductive reasoning and weighing out what is gained and lost, one can surmise from the fingernail test, or rubbing cf against ss till your arm falls off, a relative assumption. For example...obviously, the fingernail comment was not intended to be absolute and conclusive, but rather, was presumptuous on my part. So, I thought the test of rubbing cf against a ss barrel stub sounded easy enough...why not? I did not see any wear in either..we won't call it a test, but action seems a reasonable term for both, so either action. I rubbed on that piece of ss for I'm sure, about 10 years worth of cleaning strokes, with far more pressure and more concentrated pressure than what I BELIEVE we will ever see from a cleaning rod bearing against the inside of a barrel..with proper and normal use. I don't expect my barrels to last 10 years. I saw no evidence that cf would abrasively damage the outside of that barrel stub in a reasonable amount of time.

So, you can spend lots of time and money proving that I'm wrong...or maybe that I'm right. Or, you can believe what I saw was reasonable enough for the purpose.

I'm not against better testing when it's needed. In fact, I'll be traveling to the University of Cincinnati in a few weeks to do vibration analysis and accelerometer testing involving a new and patented tuner design. I have deduced a few things that I believe make it worthwhile by research and testing it on paper based on what I and others testing for me have seen. Now comes putting it to more stringent testing, looking specifically for quantitative and scientific results, to get a better understanding of what and why a barrel tuner does what they do.

I'd like to see how that cf bandsaw blade works on stainless.--Mike
 
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Thanks Mike, The finger nail test I referred to was the one I did last night and by no means a hint of something better in testing is needed. By the way, your results were the same as mine.
Good luck on your venture. Take care, Tom. Ps, don't hold your breath on an in depth study on my end, it was meant to be a simple question from a simple mind.
 
tcjones said:
I have read a lot on the matter of steel cleaning rod damage from improper use. What is your take on the carbon fiber rods?
Thanks, Tom
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Just another material thrown into the mix. I'll stick with the coated rods from Dewey that I've used for years. Dewey's does no harm. Just wipe them off after each [in and out] pass. :)
 
We had this same discussion a number of years ago. Some contended then and obviously still do that carbon fiber is abrasive in all directions.

At the time I took a piece of 1 inch cold rolled steel and placed it in my lathe with a Caldwell rod resting against it with a weight hanging on it. It ran for a few hours while I watched TV and had a small amount of black powder under where it was pressing against the steel. Come morning the lathe was still running with the Caldwell rod in 2 pieces and no groove in the steel plank. When during the night did it break? I have no idea. But the fact remains that the steel was not damaged.

There are those who still believe carbon fiber will abrade a bore.

If they wish to believe this I could care less.:p
 
Damn! more hard data. Thanks. Interesting test. When I wear out the rods that I have, I will have another on the list of possibilities.
 
The story above was kind of funny and something I would have tried. To be honest, in it's crude way that is the most in depth study I have found in all the internet searching so far as to carbon fiber wear to a barrel.
Tom,
 
jcwit said:
We had this same discussion a number of years ago. Some contended then and obviously still do that carbon fiber is abrasive in all directions.

At the time I took a piece of 1 inch cold rolled steel and placed it in my lathe with a Caldwell rod resting against it with a weight hanging on it. It ran for a few hours while I watched TV and had a small amount of black powder under where it was pressing against the steel. Come morning the lathe was still running with the Caldwell rod in 2 pieces and no groove in the steel plank. When during the night did it break? I have no idea. But the fact remains that the steel was not damaged.

There are those who still believe carbon fiber will abrade a bore.

If they wish to believe this I could care less.:p
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Pictures?
 
I'm new to all this. This is my home work. Do you mean lathe and weight test?
Tom,
 
Home work, yes. There is so much to get caught up on . I didn't even know what a tuner was 3 days ago.To me this forum is like a book I can ask questions to and it gives a reply. As far as idle goes, I'm getting some thing out of it. On the subject of questions , I have an odd one coming up, just need time later after chores to express it in the right manner.. Thanks to all,Tom
 
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I dont use a carbon fiber rod because of abrasion. I think youll find most dont use them due to the danger of them breaking. Id rather use a rod embedded with lapping compound than have a carbon rod shatter and go thru my wrist thats right in line with it.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Pictures?
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First, Butch, I have no idea how to post pictures, have tried over and over on many forums to no avail. Managed to do it once a couple of years ago, was never able to repeat the act.

Furthermore this test was done years ago, you wish me to forfeit another rod? Neh, ain't gonna happen. You do it, pretty sure you got the equipment & likely more cash to throw away then me, while not poor by any means my wife & I live on a VA Disability.

So the challenge is back in your court, have at it.
 
If, in the future, you wish to post pictures, send them to me attached to an email (email address requested and PMed when needed) as full sized files, up to a limit of 25MP per email, and I will use my free account at one of the picture hosting sites to put them in the thread where you want them. It is really very easy to do once you have done it a couple of times, but if you do not want to be bothered with the trouble, I will do it for you. I make this offer because I believe that pictures add quite a lot to these discussions.
 
jcwit said:
We had this same discussion a number of years ago. Some contended then and obviously still do that carbon fiber is abrasive in all directions.

At the time I took a piece of 1 inch cold rolled steel and placed it in my lathe with a Caldwell rod resting against it with a weight hanging on it. It ran for a few hours while I watched TV and had a small amount of black powder under where it was pressing against the steel. Come morning the lathe was still running with the Caldwell rod in 2 pieces and no groove in the steel plank. When during the night did it break? I have no idea. But the fact remains that the steel was not damaged.

There are those who still believe carbon fiber will abrade a bore.

If they wish to believe this I could care less.:p
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When their integrity is compromised (i.e. the epoxy coat is worn down to expose the carbon fiber, or they get nicked)..... they will break. I posted elsewhere that I took a piece of CF arrow shaft and rubbed it against the OD of a barrel stub and in a dozen (albeit hard) strokes I got a noticable groove. I just repeated the exercise and got the same results. You can even feel it cutting much like a fine file.
 
How about this for a stuff up

Butch Lambert said:
Mike people have impaled themselves with carbon fiber rods. I use polished steel rods.
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A couple of years back a friend electrocuted himself wiping off a cleaning rod starting at the brass jag end and sliding it through his fingers towards the handle. Not looking where the end was going the jag pierced the glass envelope of a tungsten bulb and as he was grounded sufficiently the circuit was completed - end of story. Remembering we run 240v down here. The rod in question was SS not CF but I am not sure it would have made any difference.
Andy
 
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