Shootout In New York --

G

Geo.OR

Guest
Spotty details while I'm brewing coffee. I'm not going to sit in front of the TV and listen to Contessa Brewer (MSNBC) wring her hands about "gunmen" and "lockdown."

This is apparently some sort of immigration resource center in New York.

Let's see here . . . recent update, police have apprehended a 20's "Asian" male who evidently blocked the exit to the building with his vehicle so that victims couldn't escape. 12 - 15 reported dead. "Man with a long gun."

So let's expect an hysterical call for more "gun control." Hmmmmmmmm . . . I don't think it's lawful for a non-citizen in New York to own a long-gun. (I'm not up to speed on NY gun law, but I don't think a red-blooded American can possess a loaded firearm in New York State.)

Sure as hell not "legal" to shoot people.

Holding people hostage is unlawful.

The Fire Marshall is going to have something to say about blocking exits with vehicles.

Looks to me like this guy is just plain ignoring the law! Maybe we need to introduce legislation to restrict the movement of Asian males in their 20's?

Sure . . . that would pass Constitutional muster. Never mind the First Amendment and the right of the people to "peaceably assemble."

-- Don't get me started . . . :rolleyes:
 
The place is likely a "no gun zone" because it's a government office, or just because it is, so having a gun there is likely already illegal, then there's blocking an exit, and more gun registration likely won't work because NY already has registration of all guns, doesn't it?

George you're likely right we'll have to control the movements of young Asian males, or maybe just all young males because we wouldn't want to discriminate.

He may well have mental problems too, and we couldn't possibly discriminate against the crazy people either.

More gun control is the ONLY solution then. :eek: :eek: :mad:
 
Pete, you miss the point . . . Which is that gun laws don't stop people from doing unlawful acts with firearms. Gun laws only infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms afforded the law-abiding citizen.
 
Geo.OR said:
Pete, you miss the point . . . Which is that gun laws don't stop people from doing unlawful acts with firearms. Gun laws only infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms afforded the law-abiding citizen.
Click to expand...

You are a very smart man! You must be a teacher.
 
Gee, I feel like maybe I'm..........

not getting ALL the INFO. Strangely, that's the way I felt w/Kennedy, Oswald, Ruby, King, Kennedy, Squeaky Fromme, Sirhan Sirhan, Kennedy, Mary Jo Kopechne, Marilyn Monroe, Bill Casey, Bill Colby, Gary Webb, Barry Seal, Mohammed Atta.......Gee.......I better be careful.... I might turn into......a.......

COINCIDENT THEORIST..............!!!.......??? :D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes:



:D :p :rolleyes:
 
I recently read that it is illegal for individuals to possess firearms in Mexico. But I think that the soldiers for the drug cartels have an exemption or something. They kill each other and a lot of other people, probably using illegally obtained firearms.
Oh, dear, what is the answer?
 
Yahoo says nothing about a long-gun in the story which I read.

"The man believed to have carried out the attack was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound in an office, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife."

Besides guns, it should not be so easy for people to get a hold of satchels, or hunting knives! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:
 
To my fellow shooters in New York, I would like to offer my condolences for this tragedy. It is difficult for any of us to understand senseless violence and even more so when it is close to home.
 
Mirage416 said:
Yahoo says nothing about a long-gun in the story which I read.

"The man believed to have carried out the attack was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound in an office, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife."

Besides guns, it should not be so easy for people to get a hold of satchels, or hunting knives! :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


CNN, Fox, and MSNBC all reported "long gun" while the incident was in progress.

I haven't followed up. Seems eclipsed somehow by what Michelle is wearing at the G-20.
 
It is still early and the facts are just now beginning to dribble out. The spin will fill more space than the facts.

I will call the man a coward because he did not want to die alone.

I just wonder if this would have happen if the coward had thought that there might have been people with concealed hand guns in that building. We will never know.

Concho Bill
 
This was 70 miles south of here. Guy was a Veitnamese, apparantly just laid off from IBM, apparantly Po'd at folks not understandsing his broken english, 1 long gun, 2 pistols[both on a legal permit], never said a word, family said they were not surprised.
 
The dude shoulda seeked employment here in the mid-west, companies here.strongly cater to miniorities and individuals that can't speak or understand english. Workers with prior felonly convictions are welcomed too. I seen where the Gov't pickes up 2/3 of their hourly wage for the employer. :confused:
 
Two days later, the facts are pretty clear at this point.

No long gun.

I see so much emotion and so much bias, I really think so many of these "defend our guns" threads have to be just . . . discounted.

This is a national problem. If you want to blur it all by ranting about Mexico or economics of the Midwest or the ancestry of the shooter . . . . well, it just seems we have some very irrational and biased people here. Throw anything into the fan, if it vents out our emotion . . . . .

Used to be, we tried to portray women as given over to emotion, and men clear thinking.

Read some of these "defend guns" threads and you may change your mind.
 
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So Pete, what sorts of laws would you suggest to eliminate the problem of crazy people killing others? He had the rear door of the building blocked, and with a little thought could likely have killed everyone inside with some gasoline and a match properly applied at the front entrance.

If we decide that because a maniac or several maniacs decide to kill people using guns do you think that we should ban guns? What about when someone drives their vehicle into a crowd, would you want motor vehicles banned.

It's the crazy people who murder, and if they had no guns they'd still succeed in murdering one or several or more people. Mass murder has happened ever since there have been masses of people to murder and others willing to do it. If you don't think we should own guns, or that they should all be registered and we should all be licensed or some other idiotic scheme I'd really like to hear what it is. That hasn't worked in Britain or Australia or anywhere else that I know of.

This has nothing to do with emotion it has to do with defending a Constitutional Right, or maybe you feel that the UN is smarter than our Founding Fathers and should run the show. Then only the police and military would have guns and we'd really be safe because that's worked well in Red China, Nazi Germany, et al.

BTW, what part of Montana is Wisconsin?
 
Larry,

Just a quick addition here; the top three cases of mass murders in this country involved virtually no firearms in their commission. First (of course) is 9/11; commercial aircraft, box cutters and some very determined individuals. Almost 3,000 dead. Second was Oklahoma City; a rented Ryder truck, some diesel, ammonium nitrate fertilizer and two determined individuals. 168 dead. And the last was somewhere in NJ (as I recall), involving a pissed off former boyfriend, a couple gallons of gasoline and a crowded nightclub. Nearly 90 dead.

Guns are easy targets for the politicians suffering from the "do something" disease.
 
K Thomas said:
Larry,

Just a quick addition here; the top three cases of mass murders in this country involved virtually no firearms in their commission. First (of course) is 9/11; commercial aircraft, box cutters and some very determined individuals. Almost 3,000 dead. Second was Oklahoma City; a rented Ryder truck, some diesel, ammonium nitrate fertilizer and two determined individuals. 168 dead. And the last was somewhere in NJ (as I recall), involving a pissed off former boyfriend, a couple gallons of gasoline and a crowded nightclub. Nearly 90 dead.

Guns are easy targets for the politicians suffering from the "do something" disease.
Click to expand...

AMEN, and I have to admit that I forgot all of those incidents, along with various other mass murders here and abroad that involved no guns at all. The folks like Pete who think that gun owners are being irrational and emotional don't seem to appreciate that the irrational, emotional, nearly rabid anti-gun people have NO concern for facts of any kind. They expand and elaborate every incident, and will listen to no reason. Nobody but them, their immediate family (e.g., Sarah Brady) or their armed personal guards (e.g., Teddy Kennedy and Rosie O'Donnell) should own guns. "Wisconsin Pete" seems to agree with them.
 
John S said:
If the shooter was a Hmong?

If yes I can shed some light on the subject.
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Another fella posted that the shooter was Vietnamese. You guys might be on to somthing.

Can anyone tell me the skin color/race the the following shooters?


They guy who just killed 6 kids and himself out in WA

March 29, 2009: Robert Stewart, 45, shot and killed eight people at Pinelake Health and Rehab in Carthage, N.C. before a police officer shot him and ended the rampage.

— March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people — including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy — across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.

— Feb. 14, 2008: Former student Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, fatally shooting five students and wounding 18 others before committing suicide.

— Dec. 5, 2007: Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire with a rifle at a Von Maur store in an Omaha, Neb., mall, killing eight people before taking his own life. Five more people were wounded, two critically.

— Oct. 2, 2006: Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, shot to death five girls at West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania, then killed himself.

— March 12, 2005: Terry Ratzmann, 44, gunned down members of his congregation as they worshipped at the Brookfield Sheraton in Brookfield, Wisconsin, slaying seven and wounding four before killing himself.

— March 5, 2001: Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, Calif.

— July 29, 1999: Former day trader Mark Barton, 44, killed nine people in shootings at two Atlanta brokerage offices, then killed himself.

— April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.

— May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when Kip Kinkel, 17, opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents.

— March 24, 1998: Andrew Golden, 11, and Mitchell Johnson, 13, killed four girls and a teacher at a Jonesboro, Ark., middle school. Ten others were wounded in the shooting.

— Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.

— June 18, 1990: James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.

— July 12, 1976: Edward Charles Allaway, a custodian in the library of California State University, Fullerton, fatally shot seven fellow employees and wounded two others.

— Aug. 20, 1986: Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.

— July 18, 1984: James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty.

All Caucasian I believe. My point. Let's not interject race labeling into tragic events like this. It serves no better purpose than to fuel resentment towards other groups, who for the most part are just as law abiding as us. This fellow didn't do what he did because he is Hmong or Vietnames or ... any more than those listed above may have killed because they are white Irish, German, Swede or Czech. Mental illness, or just plain evil, if you want to call it that, cuts across all racial lines.

To borrow a line often read on this and other shooting sites... and change it just a little ...

_____________________ don't kill people, people kill people.
(pick you own race, ethnicity or skin color)
 
Larry--

I lived in Montana many years. I'm currently living in Wisconsin.

I don't remember saying I want to ban guns. I have a closet full of them.

Good luck . . . .
 
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