Sheldon CM 56 Turret Lathe

N

NezRongero

Member
Could this type of lathe be used for chambering jobs? How would you do taper boring in one without a compound top slider? Wih the cross slide riding with the apron, do you indicate centerline when you drive the apron in? Or is there a mechanical snap to center on the turret cross slide aligned to the spindle axis? I am totally ignorant about turret lathes, just curious. I found a real nice one, and the price is right.

Thank you in advance for your input?


Here is a screenshot of a sales brochure.
 

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The first thing to know about a Turret Lathe is that it is not an Engine Lathe.

Looking at the link, I'm not really sure that this particular machine has threading capabilities. The ad says Hardenned and Ground Lead Screw which leads me to believe it does. We have two Turret Lathes, and neither do.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18902&stc=1&d=1485609456

Turret Lathes are historically production machines, designed to run multitudes of parts, within the capability of the machine, at a rapid pace.

If you already had this small Turret Lathe, (and it had threading capabilities), I suppose you could figure out a setup to do barrel work.

But, I certainly would not buy it with that purpose in mind.
 

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Thank you for your input, Jackie.

This is the lathe. It has a threading gear box. It is relatively short, about the same footprint as my 1236 ACER.
 

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A traditional turret lathe would not be the first choice for barrel fitting.

What taper are you planning on boring/turning? Taper boring for chamber roughing is not required. To me setting the taper to the proper angle is a B****.


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JerrySharrett said:
A traditional turret lathe would not be the first choice for barrel fitting.

What taper are you planning on boring/turning? Taper boring for chamber roughing is not required. To me setting the taper to the proper angle is a B****.


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Click to expand...

Jerry,

Thank you.


I was thinking just use this for the AR 15 223 barrel that I do a few of lately. Setting the taper is indeed a PITA. The thought of getting this turret kind of just admiration on how well built this American iron and if will serve the intent well, it might just be worth having it.

I use the Jet 1024 almost excluisvlet for AR barrels, but when I got somewhat overwhelmed with 16 Shilen barrels in the work these last couple months (we're getting our juniors ready for the coming shooting season) it got me thinking how to improve the process. It is all pro bono work and no ruah, but if I can crank them out faster next time with the Sheldon without scarficing quality, I would mind spending a couple of bucks.


nez
 
JerrySharrett said:
A traditional turret lathe would not be the first choice for barrel fitting.

What taper are you planning on boring/turning? Taper boring for chamber roughing is not required. To me setting the taper to the proper angle is a B****.


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Click to expand...

Jerry, What about after drilling you could go in with a solid carbide tool with a button, like a custom reamer with one flute to cut the taper. You could take a solid carbide reamer and cut three flutes back enough to not touch the chamber. I would not grind off all of the flute as a little left would help the strength of the tool.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Jerry, What about after drilling you could go in with a solid carbide tool with a button, like a custom reamer with one flute to cut the taper. You could take a solid carbide reamer and cut three flutes back enough to not touch the chamber. I would not grind off all of the flute as a little left would help the strength of the tool.
Click to expand...

What I was referring to was drilling then single point rough boring the body on a taper. To me just more work for no extra benefit in chamber runout, finish, or size. If you want to, fine..


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jackie schmidt said:
The first thing to now about a Turret Lathe is that it is not an Engine Lathe.


If you already had this small Turret Lathe, (and it had threading capabilities), I suppose you could figure out a setup to do barrel work.

But, I certainly would not buy it with that purpose in mind.
Click to expand...

Looks kind of like a Gisholt but, what is it?


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Butch Lambert said:
Jerry, I was speaking about the turret lathe.
Click to expand...

Id rather chamber in one of these turret lathes including turning, threading chambering, Jobs like these, are what
the turret lathe is used for. Using an engine large is all a bunch of compromises. Every movement of the lathe causes the work to loose any coaxial alignment, A very well known poster has said many times......."there are no tailstocks" that can be moved and repeat at the so-called .0001. claim most make.

The worst piece for tooling purchase would be a geometric die head.

I'[d set up a turret that stays tooled, just for tennen and chambering work.

Rule #!........ all tooling, drilling, threading, reaming is intended to by installed on the turret or cross slide/ compound, or if... Blessed with a tool changer

I have seen engine lathe tail stocks that were brand knew, as they were removed during install. That is about the most fool proof way to stop "machinists from destroying tailstocks.
 
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TRA said:
Id rather chamber in one of these turret lathes including turning, threading chambering, Jobs like these, are what
the turret lathe is used for. Using an engine large is all a bunch of compromises.

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Click to expand...

Aha, finally, an expert in benchrest barrel fitting!!


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JerrySharrett said:
Aha, finally, an expert in benchrest barrel fitting!!


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Click to expand...
Jerry, I really don't quite know how to take your comment.

I have never claimed to be anything except for being an accomplished machinist,and machine builder. Chambering a barrel ain't exactly rocket science. There are many tasks a machinist does everyday that are far more complex than sticking a drill bit into a barrel, while attached to a worn out tailstock that is not even close to being on the same axis as the headstock,and in a loosy goosy drill press chuck, to boot. Then you, ( not you, per se) push the reamer in with that same crooked tailstock. Seems even a caveman could do it.

I find it odd that all you old machinists boast about using antiques to chamber barrels.

No I'm no expert, but there many better ways to machine barrels and there are more and more gunsmiths going to modern equipment.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of gunsmiths never spent a day in a machine shop. Most are fast learners and do great work, but you have to learn to be a machinist if you are going to be good at what you do.

There are no engine lathes that can out perform a quality turret lathe, so why not set up a good one just for chambers?

There are good ways to do machine work,........and there are many better ways to do it.
 
TRA said:
Jerry, I really don't quite know how to take your comment.

I have never claimed to be anything except for being an accomplished machinist,and machine builder. Chambering a barrel ain't exactly rocket science. There are many tasks a machinist does everyday that are far more complex than sticking a drill bit into a barrel, while attached to a worn out tailstock that is not even close to being on the same axis as the headstock,and in a loosy goosy drill press chuck, to boot. Then you, ( not you, per se) push the reamer in with that same crooked tailstock. Seems even a caveman could do it.

I find it odd that all you old machinists boast about using antiques to chamber barrels.

No I'm no expert, but there many better ways to machine barrels and there are more and more gunsmiths going to modern equipment.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of gunsmiths never spent a day in a machine shop. Most are fast learners and do great work, but you have to learn to be a machinist if you are going to be good at what you do.

There are no engine lathes that can out perform a quality turret lathe, so why not set up a good one just for chambers?

There are good ways to do machine work,........and there are many better ways to do it.
Click to expand...

I think I understand what you are saying, but what has the alignment of the tailstock or chuck matter? A knowledgeable person can work around that. I think you probably know that you can chamber in the headstock with great bearings and do a great job even if the ways happen to be worn out.
 
TRA said:
Id rather chamber in one of these turret lathes including turning, threading chambering, Jobs like these, are what
the turret lathe is used for. Using an engine large is all a bunch of compromises. Every movement of the lathe causes the work to loose any coaxial alignment, A very well known poster has said many times......."there are no tailstocks" that can be moved and repeat at the so-called .0001. claim most make.

The worst piece for tooling purchase would be a geometric die head.

I'[d set up a turret that stays tooled, just for tennen and chambering work.

Rule #!........ all tooling, drilling, threading, reaming is intended to by installed on the turret or cross slide/ compound, or if... Blessed with a tool changer

I have seen engine lathe tail stocks that were brand knew, as they were removed during install. That is about the most fool proof way to stop "machinists from destroying tailstocks.
Click to expand...

??
 
Butch Lambert said:
I think I understand what you are saying, but what has the alignment of the tailstock or chuck matter? A knowledgeable person can work around that. I think you probably know that you can chamber in the headstock with great bearings and do a great job even if the ways happen to be worn out.
Click to expand...

Consider this, if the ways are worn and the bed has a twist, then your bore after drilling may, or more than likely, not be true to the barrels axis. And as Jackie always says the reamer will follow the bore.

We should consider that not all chambers are for a ppc, which is only 1 1/2" deep. Take a 6.5X300w and you are in a whole different ball game. Makes opinions of what is good enough, a very broad brush.

Drilling the bore with the tailstock is not true. That has been noted here many times and would be no need to bore if it were. Now for anything much longer than a ppc you will have to hang a boring bar out 6~10-1. We all know how well that works.
 
Sir, How long are most tenons? Are your ways used for anything else but turning and threading? If you drill and straighten it by taper boring enough chamber to allow the reamer to engage the taper bore. I do not chuck my reamer in the tailstock. I push it. If you have done that properly your reamer will follow your taper bored hole. That is what I want, not a reamer bushing following the bore. If the bore wanders the base of your chamber will be larger if your reamer follows the bore with a bushing.
I understand the long cases, but how much will the bore change in an additional inch?
Time for bed, I'll check with you again tomorrow.
I still work and get up at 6am.
 
TRA said:
Jerry, I really don't quite know how to take your comment.

I have never claimed to be anything except for being an accomplished machinist,and machine builder. Chambering a barrel ain't exactly rocket science. There are many tasks a machinist does everyday that are far more complex than sticking a drill bit into a barrel, while attached to a worn out tailstock that is not even close to being on the same axis as the headstock,and in a loosy goosy drill press chuck, to boot. Then you, ( not you, per se) push the reamer in with that same crooked tailstock. Seems even a caveman could do it.

I find it odd that all you old machinists boast about using antiques to chamber barrels.

No I'm no expert, but there many better ways to machine barrels and there are more and more gunsmiths going to modern equipment.

Keep in mind that the vast majority of gunsmiths never spent a day in a machine shop. Most are fast learners and do great work, but you have to learn to be a machinist if you are going to be good at what you do.

There are no engine lathes that can out perform a quality turret lathe, so why not set up a good one just for chambers?

There are good ways to do machine work,........and there are many better ways to do it.
Click to expand...

Hey, great post. Hang your shingle out as a benchrest rifle builder and watch the money roll in!


...a quality turret lathe...can do better???? mumble, mumble....

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