Setting up a tuner?

Since the only place I find your quote (I don't shoot benchrest) is in dlinden's post I assume what ever disdain you feel for non BR shooters should be applied to him. You might be surprised at how well a shooter who doesn't do exactly what you do could evaluate his equipment. In other words - you ain't the only one with the ability and knowledge to get the best accuracy out of his gun and tuner.

I have no distain for him, for prone shooters and their abilities and equipment, or even you for that matter. I do have distain for expert opinions offered on a discipline viewed from afar without participation.
Often in the past new folks have come here asking honest questions from folks, they believe, compete in the sport. Don't you think that's just a bit misleading? I quess I missed the bulletin from Wilbur about the new benchrest-prone forum.
 
I am the person who said I wasn't a BR shooter. I would offer the suggestion that not "knowing nuthin" would actually put someone at an advantage in assessing the value of some treatment or intervention (in this case, the use of a tuner). In any research design where measurements are taken and then compared, one initially adopts the hypothesis that there is NO difference (Null Hypothesis in stats). The numbers then have to tell us whether the Null Hypothesis can be rejected. One cannot assume a meaningful difference based on assumption, belief, superstition, custom, it's what everybody else does, etc. But that is what, in fact, people do all the time.

Would you take a new medication for diabetes, hypertension, cardiac disease, or attention deficit disorder if it was trialed on five people with "great" results? What about a new cardiac implant tested on five people? You don't have to be a diabetic or a doctor to be engaged in a process that would comprehensively determine the efficacy of a drug or surgical procedure. You would just have to have to have an acceptable research design that included proper sampling techniques. In a former life I did teach research design and statistics at the graduate school level. I can confidently say that conclusions based on 5-shot groups would yield every outcome you could imagine because the sample size is just totally inadequate, not to mention lack of control for many other variables and experimenter bias.

I don't mean to be boring and I don't want to step on any sacred cows. If somebody believes something is useful, it might make them feel good to use it regardless. However, some might want to know more details about the true effects of tools or strategies they are employing. Me - I want something that works. I don't even have to know why it works. Just that it does. It sort of comes down to faith or facts; take your choice. After all, look at the divide that comes up with evolution vs "creationism" (oh oh).

Back to rimfire, I just want to shoot my best. For point of reference, I have averaged 99.5% over my last three matches (480 shots). NRA requires 400 shots to be classed as Expert and 700 shots for Master each averaged over consecutively fired matches. (I wish it was just 5 shots period!!!) To get those last few tenths in my average and more X's, I want to spend money and time on a procedure that will yield success. Some people use tuners thus I am exploring this option.

Best regards - Dennis Lindenbaum
 
Dennis, to follow your analogy, if all the MD's backed up with lots of large trials said that you needed a pill and a plumber told you that you didn't, which would you believe.
 
Don -

I don't understand your question. Part of my point was to indicate that a prescribing doctor would not be the best person to conduct medication trials, interpret the results, and then start prescribing medications especially if he owned stock in the company that was manufacturing same medication. This would just logiclly apply to pretty much anything including tuners. At bare minimum, just do a proper analysis and make a dermination. Are the few people that respond with such anger and sarcasm to an honest question for more information a true representation of the entire readership or just a small sample size? One poster on the forum had asked whether tuners worked. After reading previous posts, I just have the same question.

Dennis L.
 
Don -

Sorry - I re-read your question and understand. I would trust the opinion of the plumber if he was the one that conducted a proper analysis. Dennis
 
dlinden-
Tuners do work if you put it on a rifle accurate enough to tell the difference. I tested a rifle I put together last week this afternoon and adjusted the tuner with some Known "good" Tenex ammo, and later some Lapua of known accuracy and quality. I won't waste time with specifics, but the rifle was shooting groups in the low .1s and now and then .0s later in the day when the wind died down. Of course I never shot the rifle without the tuner, because it will always have a tuner and it'd be a waste of time and ammo to think the 25.5" straight .850 barrel would shoot as well without the tuner.

I took another rifle that I put together last week and shot it without a tuner, because the tuner has not yet arrived for it. It had an .875 straight barrel 24" long. The best groups with it was in the high .2's and mid .3's. It will do much better when the tuner arrives.

I guess my point is, if you want to get the last bit of accuracy out of you equipment a tuner of the proper weight is essential. A tuner will also make a rifle less ammo sensitive, or that's what I've noticed.
It's not that big of a deal to set one up if you have the proper weight.
Good luck with your shooting.
 
Rule of thumb

A tuner will only help if you already have a good barrel. It will not help you with cheap ammo or a bad barrel.. Bedding is also inportant, so don't for that. The improvement a tuning device makes, is the differance between lossing all the time or finishing with the top competitors.
 
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