Secrets Of The Houston Warehouse

I have no idea of what you mean by straight threads. Also, Gene Beggs solved the indexing thing, at least for cartridges of .223 head diameter, "all" that would need be done for larger diameter cases is to build an action with a large enough front receiver ring to accommodate barrels normal shanks with an intermediate bushing between tenons and the receiver. If you are unfamiliar with how he did it, you might do a little searching.
 
Here’s how Gene Beggs and Bill Myers did it with the two prototype rifles they built in rimfire. Gene sold me this rifle but I’ve also set the same system up on a Swindlehurst.

It’s also interesting to note that the smith who set up my Swindlehurst stated he’d used differentially threaded bushings before. And for those of you who might have forgotten, “Vibe” also posted about this concept at or maybe even before it was first discussed on this forum.

Landy

zBeggs167a.jpg
 
Boyd, I believe what Mr. Jennings may be refering to is a series of non-pitched, circumferential 'ridges'....sort of a tongue and groove setup? That would sure make indexing a breeze, wouldn't it?

I didn't use bolt thrust figures since most seem to be fixated on the chamber pressure. -Al
 
Al,
I guess my point was that perhaps they should "un-fixate". ;) It reminds me of an old friend who just would no get the difference between PSI and bolt thrust. This problem may be more common than I thought.
Boyd

Landy,

So tell us, have you played with indexing? If you have, what was the difference between the worst setting and the best, did the best settings relate to orientation to bore curve in a consistent manner? I know, I don't want much, just a short book.
Boyd
 
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alinwa:

Respectfully, the analogy you've presented is flawed.

Think about it this way: If a clamped tenon will launch the barrel javelin-like down range as is suggested from the forward force...why doesn't the barrelled action in a barrel blocked rig attempt to do the same thing?

bblblock.jpg
 
Al (inwa):

I think there are probably better epoxies for gluing a barrel to a receiver than JB Weld. We are a very long way outside my sphere of knowledge, but . . . would lap sheer strength be the best number for "strength"?

See, for example, a test one guy ran:

http://www.jcrocket.com/adhesives.shtml

Heat is going to be another issue.

Anyway, some research needed.
 
Al Nyhus said:
Boyd, I believe what Mr. Jennings may be refering to is a series of non-pitched, circumferential 'ridges'....sort of a tongue and groove setup? That would sure make indexing a breeze, wouldn't it?

I didn't use bolt thrust figures since most seem to be fixated on the chamber pressure. -Al
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Yep. Sorry for the symantic confusion. I was doing one-finger hunt-and-peck on the iPad.
 
Al,
In reference to your question to Alinwa, because the sheer force that firing causes within the barrel action joint is contained by the action and barrel and is no way transmitted to a barrel block which only sees recoil and the sliding and twisting forces generated by the changing position of the rifle and the barreled actions asymmetrical mounting in it. It is like me picking up a full oxygen tank, I the tank resists the pressure, I just support the tank. The action, barrel, case and bullet form a container of sorts, if only for a fraction of a second.
Boyd
 
I've removed my response re: barrel blocks. They hold the barreled actions for obvious reasons. My shot at humor missed by a mile, evidently.

Good shootin'. :) -Al
 
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Alinwa,
Years ago, I bought my brother a new hardwood stocked Savage 110 when it came on sale at a local discount store. I picked up an old Lyman scope and mounted bases and rings. When I did the bases, I decided to bed them with clear epoxy, so after checking for screw bottoming, and waxing the screws and threaded holes, I put an oval ring of epoxy around the screw holes and held the base slightly above the receiver so I could start the screws without getting epoxy in the holes...I thought. Many years later when I switched the '06 barrel for a varmint 22-250, I found that the epoxy had flowed down through the base attachment holes and filled in the spaces between many of the threads. The funny thing was that although a little rough, that '06 barrel had shot very well with the first load that I tried.

The point of this is that you might consider using the base holes and make some sort of hollow screw to pressure inject the epoxy. Who knows, you might be able to intentionally recreate my mistake.
 
Al Nyhus said:
OK, let's keep going on this.

So, here's the quandry:

Is there a point where the increased clamping area of a non-threaded tenon/receiver joint equals, or exceeds, the 'stability' of a conventional threaded connection?

4mesh, Charles, Boyd, Jackie, alinwa, Greg Walley, Jim Borden, Jerry Stiller, Mike Bryant, Butch Lambert, Nate Lambeth, Gene Beggs, anyone and everyone.....your thoughts on this?

Maybe I should have studied Mechanical Engineering instead of Physics and human anatomy???? :D :eek: -Al
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Al, If you are looking for the effect/improvement (?) if a threadless joining of the barrel and action, consider this, when clamping a 1.350" rail gun barrel in a 4-bolt barrel vise I can easily find the restriction with a lead slug.

I firmly believe in slugging a barrel before I even touch a tool to it. That gives me 1) a confidence factor (+ or -) in how the barrel should perform and 2) if I find (and I have) a flaw in the bore by pushing that lead slug through it, I have a good case for returning the barrel to its manufacturer.

Now, how much radial pressure would it take, how much surface area would it take and what surface finish would one need to offset the 65K-70K we generate with current 6PPC loads. Most winners are now using in excess of 31 grains of V133 (and just how much pressure is that)??
 
Now Jerry...in excess of 31 grains...most winners? Really? Come on. I can stack powder in a case as well as anyone, but that amount seems off by about one grain, and I think that the most should probably have been some. Of course I have been wrong before.
Boyd
 
Boyd Allen said:
Now Jerry...in excess of 31 grains...most winners? Really? Come on. I can stack powder in a case as well as anyone, but that amount seems off by about one grain, and I think that the most should probably have been some. Of course I have been wrong before.
Boyd
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I was shooting V133-07 this weekend at River Bend and from my Chargemaster at LV200 I was shooting 31.2 grains. Its a full case and it takes a slow drop and it is about 3480 fps. And, this is using an 0.825" bullet but the freebore is 0.091". QuickLOAD shows this to be 77,700 pressure!! A couple of guys said they were at about 31.5 grains...DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!


edit-- Boyd, I just successfully put 32.1 grains V133-07 in a 6PPC case and seated a 0.825 jacket bullet to 2.172 OAL. Now, you pull the trigger!!

All I used is an MTM 4" drop tube funnel and a very slow pour. It has held that OAL for about 15 minutes, long enough to go to the line and shoot.
 
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Jerry,
I have not played with the '07 yet. Could it be a little more dense than the '05 that I am shooting? Man! a .091 freebore...that sounds a bid unusual to me, but if the target likes it...I have a supply of Tucker #3 bullets that I like, that end up with about .130 in the case neck when seated a few thou' short of jam (with my .060 freebore in front of a 1.515 chamber with a trim to 1.490). I don't think that I could work with a throat that is that long. What bullets are you using, and how much are they in the neck?
On the powder packing technique thing, over the years there has been a lot written about long drop tubes, but in my experience a slow drop contributes more than drop tube length. Since you are working with a 4" tube, I would guess that you have found the same thing.
Boyd
 
What bullets are you using, and how much are they in the neck?
On the powder packing technique thing, over the years there has been a lot written about long drop tubes, but in my experience a slow drop contributes more than drop tube length. Since you are working with a 4" tube, I would guess that you have found the same thing.
Boyd
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I use several different bullet makers, all are 0.825" jackets and all have an ogive in the 7-8 range. I don't like pointy bullets like the 8.5-10 ogive, too much pointy nose sticking out that you have no control over. On a long freebore there the bullet is suspended between the case neck end and the leade. IMO, bullets seated deep are too likely to crook the case neck and/or damage that thin piece of copper we call the jacket. No, I don't jump them.

On packing powder, as you termed it, I just swirl the powder around the funnel cone and pour it slowly. Really packing, I have, as a test, put 32.8 grains in a case with about 1/32" of neck to start the bullet. In part of the 2011 season I shot 0.110" freebore and it shot well but with no more grip than that allowed I could not get enough neck tension.
 
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