Scope Frustation.

J

JCummings

New member
Scope Frustration:
I thought it might be helpful to tell a tale of the frustrations of dealing with scope unreliability. Unfortunately I know others have had similar frustrations. Hopefully, some have suggestions to help decrease the frustration.

A couple years ago my only VFS Benchrest rifle was knocked off a rifle rack at a match by someone landing on the bell of the reliable Weaver T36 scope I had been using. (unfortunately, the person never really even said they were sorry or offered in any way to assist in the cost of the loss of my scope). This seriously bent the scope tube and ruined the scope.

I replaced the scope with a same vintage Weaver T36 from another rifle. The VFS rifle was not reliable. Scope adjustment would set in suddenly or not at all. I could not shoot consistently. I replaced the scope with a new Weaver T36. Scope response seemed better but I still could not shoot the rifle to a consistent POA/POI.

About this time I had a series of two neck fusion surgeries. This brought my rifle shooting essentially to a screeching halt for a year.

During the year off I purchased a new Leupold 45 Competiion scope. This Spring I mounted it on my VFS. Shooting was very frustrating with no POA/POI consistency. Worse yet, the scope would not stay in focus. Every shot required that I refocus the scope before shooting the next shot. To me this was quite a surprise for a brand new $1000.0 scope from Leupold. The scope has gone to Leupold. I know in the end they will make it right, but, it has confused, prolonged, and complicated the process of trying to get my rifle to shoot.

Yesterday I mounted a Nightforce 12-42 BR scope on the rifle and took it to the range. THIS RFLE SHOOTS! POI/POA right on. Consistent good groups. Nothing wrong with the rifle. Not TOO much wrong with the shooter. It has all been scopes all along.

Now, how could I have avoided some of the scope frustration and concern about the rifle versus the scopes along the way?
 
the right scope

I'm trying to put this as easy as possible. When it comes to a lot of things you get what you pay for. I fought the scope bug for a few years and finally decided to buy what is supposed to be the best BR scope you can buy, and then I would know that there was nothing left to do. I bought a March and haven't looked back.
 
I hear you but

If we can't depend upon a $1000.00 new Leupold Competition scope and we have to spend $2000.00+ for scopes to shoot I can tell you I'm done. There are not enough shooting options and its not important enough to me to spend that kind of money to shoot a half dozen matches a summer. I think I'm going fishing.

Also, I think it is of note that the cheap Weaver T36 I used initially for a few years worked great. So it's not just a matter of scope cost/brand. You can get a lemon in any brand. It's just less likely if you spend 5 times as much.

I also realized that I actually already now have the real answer to help minimize the frustration. In the course of all the mounting and unmounting and shooting different scopes I have developed a pattern that if used would have helped. I now am setting up my scope at the range with a 100 yard plumb line. The scope rest is leveled, the rifle is leveled, the scope is set up plumb and tightened appropriately. Instead of just shooting to see how things go as I have in the past shooting the box test for scope reliability and return to adjustment will be the first order of business. If the scope is not reliable it's coming off right then.
 
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My leupold Competition demonstrated the same out of focus problem.
I found a post made by Alinwa about adjusting that. It did solve my
problem It must be taken to infinity and brought back as needed.
 
over a month of scope testing, has shown me that any scope not
alligned to the center of its adjustments is operating at a severe disadvantage. Its very much like a windage top set way off to the loose
side, not allowing the springs to return positively. Misaligned or bent( as in
dropped) allows one scope after another to show issues. I also find the
box test doesn't tell the whole story
 
Bob:

Certainly this is correct. I would find it helpful to develop a list or protocol to maximize scope set up function test. spinning the erectors all the way in both directions and centering them is a good idea. sometimes the centering doesn't work. For example setting up a scope for long range with a 20 MOA base will not allow you to et up at 100 yards with the adjustment in mid range.

Anyone that can add things to help maximize setup accuracy, time, and function test PLEASE add your suggestions. That is the overall goal of the post.

Has anyone written a short article or sticky that does this?

As far as the out to infinity and back and right then back left to adjust I know this. My problem with the Leopold was not getting it adjusted, it was that it would immediately go out of focus every time a shot was fired!
 
JCummings said:
As far as the out to infinity and back and right then back left to adjust I know this. My problem with the Leopold was not getting it adjusted, it was that it would immediately go out of focus every time a shot was fired!
Click to expand...

What did Leupold say about that?
 
I believe that

the only true way to center the socpe is to use vee blocks and a plumb bob string. If the adjustments are not exact all the way thru the count, the crosshairs will still be off. Max
 
I had a similar experience with a Weaver T-36. I mounted it on 2 different rifles, and used 4 different mounts and still could not get it to shoot, even though the rifles shot well with other scopes. I was finally going to send it back and get checked out.

Before I did, I bought a scope ring reamer. I already had the lapping tool. I used the reamer on a set of rings, lapped them in, and gave the Weaver one last chance. It has been on the rifle ever since. Any tweaking at all in the scope made it shoot horrible.

The reamer doesn't work too well on Aluminum mounts as I found it really didn't want to cut them, but it works perfectly on steel mounts.

The next time I mount a scope in a set of Aluminum mounts, I am going to coat the scope with release agent and put some epoxy in the mounts for a totally stress-free mount, making sure not to turn it into a solid assembly of course.:D
 
There is no doubt in my mind that the Weaver I had the most trouble with (expect the one that took flight then crashed) that came off another rifle is in the scope not the mount. It will shoot OK if I do not try to adjust anything. If I make adjustment to elevation or wind it's anyone's guess when it will change except for right then. It may be 2 shots or it may be 10. It won't be when or the amount you want. Eventually I'll send it in for repair, just not priority right now.
 
Scope checker...

Scope Frustration:
I thought it might be helpful to tell a tale of the frustrations of dealing with scope unreliability. Unfortunately I know others have had similar frustrations. Hopefully, some have suggestions to help decrease the frustration.


If you can still find one, the Hood Scope checker works quite well....Jan
 
I have two 36x Weavers, a Leupold LCS 40x, NF 12-42 and a March 10-60x. The Leupold and NF have been returned for repairs, but the WEAVERS and the March have never had a problem. That doesn't mean it can't happen, just that I have been fortunate. I have heard many glowing reports of the Weaver and NF quality, so I do not bash them.
 
The latest addition to my scope tester, is a set of Delrin V-blocks and
I use a one inch steel rod about 5 feet long, painted black and suspended
from my 150 yard target frame. Its a pretty good plumb bob, and easy
to see.
JC cummings, regardless of how far you shoot, setting a scope up on
center is a good place to start.
 
Bob:
Are you saying set it up on center first to check the scope then transfer to a long range base and set up again for long range?
 
I can see how a plumb reference is of great use when mounting a scope, but for centering the reticle, so that the intersection of the cross hairs is in the center of the tube, rolling the scope, on some sort of non scratching V blocks, and adjusting the turrets until the intersection does not move as the scope is rotated around its longitudinal axis, would seem to be the only way to accomplish the task with precision.

Another thing worth noting...
Exercising your turrets can be beneficial. Once one of the better Southern California shooters was having a melt down at Visalia. All of his shooting buddies, equally accomplished, who were shooting the match with him, thought it was his scope, and offered him spares. I asked him if he had tried exercising his turrets, by which I meant running them to their limits in all directions, and then back to their previous setting. He had not done this before, but he tried it, and went on to win a yardage with the same scope. It was a Weaver.

In the same vein, I read a well done article in PS that demonstrated a measurable improvement in tracking when turrets were run back and forth to their limits repeatedly (perhaps 20 times, or until hand fatigue set in). The author's thought was that this running in, helped smooth the mating surfaces, and his results seemed to show that there is merit to what he wrote. Looking at my own Benchrest scope usage, I tend to only move adjustments as needed for a barrel, load or yardage change. Perhaps I should change that and make an effort to periodically take them to their limits a few times. Opinions?
 
Boyd:

I was thinking about these same things this afternoon. I wondered how many people run their turrets this way and double check their scope at the start of each season. I seems to me that this is wise and that I should make it a habit to do so. It sure beats getting to the first match of the year only to find to you have a fussy unreliable scope. Worse yet,as I have now learned, is having a rifle that is not shooting right and not knowing if the scope is the problem. The uncertainty is much worse than knowing what is off - the scope or the rifle.
 
Another scope related question...
How many of you assume that because you have high quality rings on a high quality one piece base that you don't need to lap, and/or bed the rings? In the last couple of years I have mounted some very high dollar scopes for the man that owns the company that I work for. Taking no chances, I lapped and deburred the rings. I never found any that did not need lapping. I bet that there are a lot of shooters that assume that there scope is not being bent or distorted that would be suprised at what they would see if they cycled a ring lap a few times in their mounted rings, i know I was.
 
Boyd Allen

The black one inch rod is really only used to level crosshairs.When Rotating
the scope in Delrin V-Blocks anything can be used as a reference, just
keep checking it as you turn it 180, first one plane, then the other.
 
#16
Today, 07:26 PM
Boyd Allen
Super Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,250
I can see how a plumb reference is of great use when mounting a scope, but for centering the reticle, so that the intersection of the cross hairs is in the center of the tube, rolling the scope, on some sort of non scratching V blocks, and adjusting the turrets until the intersection does not move as the scope is rotated around its longitudinal axis, would seem to be the only way to accomplish the task with precision.

It is a lot easier to put the objective end of the scope up to a mirror and adjust the scope to where you only see one reticle. On a 36x you would want a lot of light in the room.
 
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