Scope Bedding Opinions Needed

F

fe1

Guest
Hey Guys, I need some professional gunsmith opinions on an issue of scope ring bedding.
If one hires a smith to bed a set of 30mm scope rings, would'nt the smith need the actual 30mm scope that is going to be setting in the rings he is bedding, and not some other 30mm scope he had on hand at the shop?
Or in other words, will a 30mm scope ring bedding job fit all 30mm scope tubes? A one size fits all, kind of thing.
TIA
 
I don't know about the others on here but I bed the particular scope to the rings it will be setting in while they're mounted to the rifle. Just common logic to me.
 
It's usually the bases that need bedding in the jobs I do... and then lap the rings...

He could lap the rings until they both show a 'good fit' and simply leave a coating or powdered rosin in them... all you would have to do is lay your scope in and tighten the top halves down.
 
Bedding Rings

The object in bedding a set of scope rings is the same as bedding a action. That being, to insure a 100 percent, deflection free mating suface between the objects that are bedded. To do this properly, you must use the very components that are going to be used.

Ever actually seen how straight scope tubes are. I have chucked some up, and they are more times than not as straight as they appear. Some are not even round, if you define "round' as a object that mic's the same all the way around.

So yes, to do a proper scope to ring bedding job, you need the same scope as will be mounted in the rings...........jackie
 
This particular smith says he has already lapped and bedded the rings without having the actual scope that will be mounted to the rifle, so apparently he used some sort of 30mm tube, 30mm scope or 30mm rod in the process.
Just seems to me like the scope that is going to be used in the rings would not match up correctly to the bedding, thus possably binding the scope and leaving ring marks on a $1700.00 scope.
By the way the rings are a set of $100.00 30mm double screw Kelbly Rings that I hope is not ruined by this unusual process of bedding them in something other than the actual scope that is going to be used.
Would'nt this be the same as bedding a stock with one action and putting a different like action in the same stock and expecting them to mate up correctly?
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my way of thinking.
I guess what I am asking is this: Would I have a legitiment dispute in "not" paying for the service of lapping and bedding 'my' scope rings, that was paid for and furnished by me, and to have them bedded to something other than the actual scope that is going to be installed in the rings? And knowing the smith did not request the actual scope going in the rings and took it upon himself to bed them to something other than my scope.
Would it also seem fair to ask for a replacement set of rings in fear of having to much metal taken off in the lapping process and not being able to remove the epoxy bedding without damaging the rings?
Your honest opinions would be greatly appreciated and would really help me in deciding what to do about the matter at hand.

Thanks for your time.
 
fe1 said:
This particular smith says he has already lapped and bedded the rings without having the actual scope that will be mounted to the rifle, so apparently he used some sort of 30mm tube, 30mm scope or 30mm rod in the process.
Just seems to me like the scope that is going to be used in the rings would not match up correctly to the bedding, thus possably binding the scope and leaving ring marks on a $1700.00 scope.
By the way the rings are a set of $100.00 30mm double screw Kelbly Rings that I hope is not ruined by this unusual process of bedding them in something other than the actual scope that is going to be used.
Would'nt this be the same as bedding a stock with one action and putting a different like action in the same stock and expecting them to mate up correctly?
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my way of thinking.
I guess what I am asking is this: Would I have a legitiment dispute in "not" paying for the service of lapping and bedding 'my' scope rings, that was paid for and furnished by me, and to have them bedded to something other than the actual scope that is going to be installed in the rings? And knowing the smith did not request the actual scope going in the rings and took it upon himself to bed them to something other than my scope.
Would it also seem fair to ask for a replacement set of rings in fear of having to much metal taken off in the lapping process and not being able to remove the epoxy bedding without damaging the rings?
Your honest opinions would be greatly appreciated and would really help me in deciding what to do about the matter at hand.

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

If the 30mm rings have been lapped with a 30mm lapping tool and not removed, the next step is to install any 30 mm scope... I don't know what else you would do. ANY 30mm scope should fit. If he had your scope there all he would do would be to install it.
 
The rings have been lapped and epoxy bedded.
 
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fe1 said:
The rings have been lapped and epoxy bedded.
Click to expand...

What was epoxy bedded into the rings? If it was a straight 30mm tube your scope should fit right in.

All this 'talk' is dependent on the quality of work that has been done. None of us know anything about that.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
What was epoxy bedded into the rings? If it was a straight 30mm tube your scope should fit right in.

All this 'talk' is dependent on the quality of work that has been done. None of us know anything about that.
Click to expand...

In my experience, just lapping the rings won't do it; on top of that, as was mentioned earlier, MOST scopes will NOT fit all the bedding jobs just like most actions will not fit all bedded stocks the same. As for bedding the bases, all well and good but when it comes to lapping the rings, you need to remember one thing, lapping the rings makes them BIGGER. I always lap first and then bed and use the same scope you intend to shoot with.

Cheers.

Jim
 
Lapping rings with a 1 inch bar makes the rings larger than 1 inch. The abrasive used has thickness. Although the ears of the rings will pull upwards
and conform, the 6 o'clock area is loose. Having measured many scopes,
and ask that you do the same, you will find, few of the same exact diameter.
if they have ever been on another gun, they often will no longer be round.
Most scopes have the turret housing formed with half of the tube and the
other half screws in. Using V-blocks, and an indicator, this is easy to find.
I am not condemning any scope here , just turning over rocks.My best
rifles all have bedded scopes. Having watched a video of a gun
in slow motion it is clear that scopes flex on recoil.Should that scope
not return exactly, a bullet hole extra could easily result.While playing
with a frozen scope of my own doing, I found that slight changes in ring
cap tension would shift point of impact, and it was quite profound. Even
rings with inserts are not perfect, as the inserts can be found to be mismatched to the cavity they sit in. A lapping bar needs to be straight
and slightly undersized. I cannot tell you how much smaller as this depends
on the scope and abrasive used.
 
Jkob said:
In my experience, just lapping the rings won't do it; on top of that, as was mentioned earlier, MOST scopes will NOT fit all the bedding jobs just like most actions will not fit all bedded stocks the same. As for bedding the bases, all well and good but when it comes to lapping the rings, you need to remember one thing, lapping the rings makes them BIGGER. I always lap first and then bed and use the same scope you intend to shoot with.

Cheers.

Jim
Click to expand...

In my experience I have seen many hundreds of scopes that were poorly mounted leaving marks on the scope tube... but they held point of impact as well as any adjustable scope does. I think all scope tubes flex and distort slightly under a tightened ring, even bedded rings. I think the only way you could eliminate this would be a 'glue in'. The top rings screws would need to be left 'loose' and everything epoxied together... just like a glued in stock.

I also think there is a lot of unproven theory in what we do in the quest of perfection. :)
 
Scope bedding

Interesting post with good detail!

While not going to the extent of bedding the rings, I do lap the rings and then clean the lapping compound thoroughly from the rings. I lay a piece of 1/2" masking tape in both bottom and top ring cradles. Re-insert the lapping bar, trim excess masking tape with X-Acto knife and pre-form the rings to the lapping bar by tightening the screws. The ring top and bottom halves are match marked so they are a matched set. The masking tape provides a cushion and serves to lock the scope in a non slip, non marring cradle for the scope to lay in. The masking tape will conform slightly to account for any material removed by lapping. I haven't had any problems. This is used for varmint rigs, not benchrest.

Lou Baccino
 
Quite clearly, those that are winning and setting records leave no
stones unturned. Many of the theories are certainly home grown, but have worked for them. A shooter well know to all and in the top of this game, told
me once, he has never shot a gun in comp without a bedded scope.
 
To the OP, if you thought that was a concern then why didn't you provide the scope with the rings ?

Sounds like you didn't ask enough questions and or weren't informed enough about what you wanted or needed.
You asked if you should pay for the services provided. Yes, you should. As you can tell there are many "opinions" about how something should be done. Your guy did the job based on his experience. You owe him for that
 
I would have provided the scope if I had of known it was needed. I was supposed to have been informed on when the project was getting near completion and then sending the scope. I was haveing a complete rifle built and the rings came in the box with the action upon delivery, so therefore I sent the rings and everything that came with the action in the factory packaging.
Its just that I thought the rings should have been mate bedded to the scope that was going to be installed in them.
I have thought it over and decided to not dispute the matter and chalk it up to a lesson learned!!! Who knows it might just happen to work just fine, if not maybe I can skim bed them. We all make mistakes and I guess this mistake just rides a little on both sides of the fence for each party involved.
I really appreciate all the responses and I would like to hope that someone has benefited with some knowledge learned in the field of scope rings.

Merry Christmas and go for the X's.
 
fe1

I have a strong belief that bedding a scope is a good thing. That is
simply a theory unproven. Many excellent rifles have been built without
this addition. I know for sure that I have been beaten with many. Shooting
a .150 group instead of a .160 because your scope was bedded will never
make up for a .360 in the next match if you miss a condition. This game
is won by great shooters, not just great equiptment. Your smith has done
his best, shoot it and learn.
 
fe1: You'll not have any issues with the way it was done. Having bedded scopes for quite a few years, I've done it a lot of different ways..with the exact scope, with a machined piece of bar stock, etc. Once a set of rings is bedded, scopes become interchangable as the small amount of difference between tube diameters of different scopes is more than taken up by the inherent flex as you snug the ring tops down.

People would be very surprised to see how little contact there is between most scope tubes/rings on a non bedded setup. That more shooters don't have issues speaks more to the flexibility of the rings than a precise fit.

Your 'smith did a good thing for 'ya. Buy him a beer and say "Thanks!" :)
 
Bob Kingsbury said:
....Having watched a video of a gun
in slow motion it is clear that scopes flex on recoil....
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,
I've been looking for a video like the one you mentioned here. Do you have a link for such a video?

Thanks much,
Kevin
 
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