Savage vs Custom Action

Bo both SGJennings and caroby,

Point taken and I actually ended up buying a 6PPC that I will be able to convert at some point if I want to. I shot real well my first match with it taking 4th with a 250-18X at 100yds (against 100% 30BR shooters). But I was using ammo prepared by the guy I bought it from. I suspect it will be a real challenge at 200yds in "for score" matches. But hey!, it was a blast!!!!

So, my new quest is to be able to make perfect ammo for it ($$$ cha-ching on new "stuff" for reloading $$$). There needs to be an expert YouTube video on this ammo preparation stuff. I'll produce one when I feel my ammo is good enough to justify it.

Congrats! That is HUGE!

GLP is telling you right. Start with that known and go from there. If you didn't get dies with the buy, you could send 3 fired cases to Harrel's or Carstensen for a die. You could buy brass from Ron Hoehn or others till you get confident in making brass.

Make it easy on yourself. Introduce one variable at a time.

Greg J.
 
Read the thread. I'll extend the offer. Any score match at MR&PC, not Varmint, not candy shoot, any *factory* Savage, $100 per point difference on the total 250.

and, I want some heads up so that I'm not there trying something different, like shooting my son's 6 BR.

BTW, your 30BR Savage is obviously not factory.

I have a Savage. I like Savages. I *love* the versatility of the barrel nut. I just wouldn't recommend a Savage to a new shooter wanting to be competitive in VFS. My experience has been that the used, already proven PPC is the way to get started. Other venues? No opinion offered.

The original thread was about Savage target actions. I missed the jump to stock Savages. I'm sure that Craig or I can make a match next year since the last match is a candy shoot.

BTW, watch out for some serious Savage shooters up at Paper Tigers. The cult of the barrel nut runs deep up there.
 
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Read the thread. I'll extend the offer. Any score match at MR&PC, not Varmint, not candy shoot, any *factory* Savage, $100 per point difference on the total 250.

Come on, that's a sucker offer. When's the last time you dropped a point at 100 yards with a VFS rifle? For me, it was around June, 2011 (at Black Creek), and that let me know there was a problem with the rifle.

Make it Xs if it's to have any significance.
 
The Miami Rifle and Pistol Club 100 yard target has a .25" 10 ring. The 200 yard target is IBS sized, but cut off at the 5 ring. It is EASY to drop a point as I've demonstrated several times lately.
 
I missed the jump to stock Savages.
The newbie dood jumped in and brought up the factory savage F/TR and strongly inferred, based on that result, that they would be competitive in VFS. So, I threw the gauntlet and never heard anything from him.

It would have been the time for him to take me up on it. My rifle is currently out of commission and I was shooting my son's rifle that won't pull the PPC rimmed case. It's a major handicap for me as I am a terrible wind reader and want to run when I find a condition that is working.
 
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Nope. It's a custom. It's a Lawton 7500.

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It pulls them from the chamber. About as soon as the neck clears the chamber, it jumps off the extractor. I then use the Mark 1 Finger Ejector to push it out of the eject port. Not ideal.

It works great with 6 BR cases. In fact, it worked with the PPC rim cases when I first brought it home.

My rifle, below, is having problems cocking. About 1:5 or 2:5 rounds loaded, it fails to cock. Once it does, lifting the bolt and closing it does nada. I have to pull the bolt back till the round ejects, insert again, close really slow and most of the time, it will cock. It always cocks on an empty chamber. The action has some age on it. I think it has just worn a tad and needs a little TLC. I have a new BR bolt face bolt coming for it. I will see if it will work for me when it gets here. No matter, the old bolt/trigger will get its needed TLC over the winter. I am also going to restock it in something that is a tad easier to hold.

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IMO the only way to "know" is to go both routes..... I've spent tens of thousands of real American dollars trying to prove that "factory can run with custom" and that "other rounds can compete with the 6PPC."

And I've learned a lot. I've learned by DOING. I've learned by spending time and money, not just speculating.

And I've learned WHY custom actions exist....... and it ain't about pride of ownership.

IME some factory actions (Rem700/ Sav110) can be made to be "as accurate as a custom" but it will cost more money than buying a custom-built action and there's more to shooting groups than "accuracy."

Also IME certain other cartridge cases can be modified to be "as accurate" as the 6PPC....... again, for more money and AGAIN simple "accuracy" isn't the whole equation. I can state from personal experience that THE CHEAPEST way to find truly consistent accuracy is to buy a custom-actioned, purpose-built BENCHREST 6PPC set up for short range Group Benchrest. A couple years with this setup, learning how to shoot will give a person a sense of what real, consistent accuracy is.

Then there's the competitive arena, This where REAL consistent day-to-day REPEATABLE accuracy begins to show. There's nothing like being mercilessly flogged by others on the same day, under the same conditions to point out inadequacies inherent to the system.

And NO, absolutely NO-NO-NO, ability CANNOT make up for an inadequate shooting system in short range Benchrest. 600-1000yd BR has traditionally had more leeway, more room for error, more room for LUCK to play a part because the shooting environment is inherently less stable but in the last few years 600-1000yd equipment has advanced by leaps and bounds. IMO the chance of winning more than a relay or two in any SANCTIONED BR Match using inferior equipment is currently very low.

That said, if one had endless budget and a grudge against custom actions, or a point to prove, the best arena in which to campaign a Remington or Savage-actioned BR rifle (no others need apply ;) and no unmodified factory rifles need apply) would currently be 1000yd Benchrest.

Short-range BR for Group or Score the only way to even show would be with a wicked tricked out factory action, one costing probably more than a custom action and worth much less for resale. I've currently got one competitive Rem700 action that STARTED as a Jim Borden modified action. (IMO if I were ever again to pay someone to modify a 700 action bringing it up to snuff it would be Borden) I bought it used for somewhat less than a custom action and have since spent more money modifying it. I have more money in it than it's worth.... more money than a Borden custom action would cost brand new..... and it does shoot really good. Would I do it again? NO! Would I advise anyone to do it? NO! Did I save money? NO!

Did I learn a lot? YES! And I'm learning more every day.



On a different note, the guy above Mr Histle (snicker) simply has no clue. Having never BEEN to any sort of BR Match Mr Histle makes the (flawed) assumption that "Savage actions, capable of setting records at 1000 yds can obviously compete at short range." There's simply NO WAY to explain to Mr Histle that he's wrong. Flatout wrong. Mr Histle, let me offer you an analogy. Perhaps you aren't a gearhead but I'll presume that you know at least a little about car racing. Your statement above about 1000yd VS 100yd can be stated this way in racing terms....... " So, you're saying that John Force's car, capable of setting records in the quarter mile can't compete at Grand Prix?" (snicker)

It's that uninformed.

(If the racing analogy doesn't work then pick a sport you DO know something about and I'll create another example)




opinionsby










al
 
Great post, Al.

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Except,

So, you're saying that John Force's car, capable of setting records in the quarter mile can't compete at Grand Prix?"

Yeah, I'd say it can't compete...What would be foolish would be to think it could compete. For one thing, his gas tank's too small. How many pit stops would he need, per lap...
 
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Greg, I have a 6 PPC on a BAT SV action with a stock quite similar to this one. I really disliked it at first, but have learned to appreciate it. Mine is a "West 2000" and is about 3.5" longer than the usual stock. It is very thick in the wrist area, almost no grip and virtually impossible to "hold". But it sits and rides in the bags just super and I have learned to shoot it totally free recoil with very good results.

Hope the TLC brings the action back to full song.
 
When I have the PPC barrel on, I do shoot free recoil. I haven't been consistent shooting that way with the 30 barrel on, though. Hence the move to a new stock.
 
There's something to be said for trying both; factory and custom that is. You'll learn quite a bit along the way, determine for yourself whether spending money to get a factory action comparable to a custom action is worth it or not. We have all been that route but there's nothing like experiencing it for yourself.
 
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