Rimfire & weather

[)Stephan]

Hey boys and girls,

Just wanted to ask how you are adopting to weather regarding ammo.

I had some Tenex lots tested and ordered the most promising one.
Now during the cold weather it does not perform the same as during summer..

Does a tuner help? Or do you shoot different lots in different conditions?

I have an Anschütz Br50 bagrider stock and a 1913action. I stilll have the original barrel installed - it does shoot good enough for me.
Also I have a Nightforce 32x Scope mounted, but maybe it will be replaced by a T36 for less weight.


Cheers,
Stephan

 

[tim]

What temps. Are you calling cold? Nobody shoots without a tuner.

 

[)Stephan]

41°F is cold for me.
Summer was about 77°F and obviously my rifle is out of tune now.
Will a tuner help in this condition? Or should I just go and get another lot for winter?

 

[tim]

It's unlikely anything is going to work @ 40deg. Lube hardens to the point it is ineffective.

 

[linekin]

Stephan,
I had something similar happen to me last year but just the opposite. The gun shot great when it got hot & the humidity was up. I posed the question here & here were some of the responses.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?91784-Something-Happened
I saw my rifles go in & out of tune all this summer too. I am convinced that temp, humidity, barometric pressure, altitude, etc all play a role in this.
I think the better rifle/ammo combination you have you can get by without doing much. But we've ALL seen our guns really come alive at some point. The rest of the time they're just good shooting guns.
Now what I have been wondering is it the ammo or the gun?? I'm thinking all the things mentioned above may have more of an effect on the wax & the fouling in our guns & thats why we see changes. I don't really know other that to say that I believe they're effecting something.
Mark where your tuner is. Crank on that thing!! Add a weight!!! You can always go right back to where you started. No harm done.
Keith

 

[)Stephan]

Thank you all! I did read the thread just now and it was very good information in there!
I like the idea of taking some different lots to the range. And I also like the idea to tune with a tuner.

Thanks again!

P.S. My scores went down from 242-245 to about 220.. And I believe it's just weather condition!

 

[linekin]

Thank you all! I did read the thread just now and it was very good information in there!
I like the idea of taking some different lots to the range. And I also like the idea to tune with a tuner.

Thanks again!

P.S. My scores went down from 242-245 to about 220.. And I believe it's just weather condition!

Stephan.
Also make sure to keep your ammo warm as well. Keep it in your pocket until your ready to shoot. Don't put it on the bench & then take 1/2 hour to set up. Might help.
Wind 8 or 10 rds down range before you shoot for score. Warm the gun up! Cold days may take more.
All this may not be the problem at all. Sometimes we get hot or cold ourselves & it effects US.
Be sure your bolt is clean. No oil that's congealing that's slowing down the fp.
Remove the action from the stock & make sure there is no excess oil/solvent crap between the action & bedding. Found some of that myself this year & was amazed at the difference it made cleaning it out. Do this often. Thanks MC!
When I say crank on that thing I don't mean huge amounts at a time. It shouldn't need that if at all, but don't be afraid too cause some say they never do. You can always go back as long as you know where you started.
Good luck with it & have fun. It what its all about.
Keith

 

[Travelor]

Faster in the cold

We have found that shooting ammo that is faster in cold weather helps.

Why? Not sure but it seems to work.

 

[)Stephan]

Thanks again! Just ordered a Harrel type muzzle tuner (1.014" for my barrel) and some weights.
Also I will go to my gunsmith on wednesday to have the rifle checked and get a small lot of good ammo.

 

[linekin]

Thanks again! Just ordered a Harrel type muzzle tuner (1.014" for my barrel) and some weights.
Also I will go to my gunsmith on wednesday to have the rifle checked and get a small lot of good ammo.

Stephan,
Maybe some of the Anschutz owners out there may be able to tell you other things to be aware of.
I'm thinking it could be in the ignition. Maybe a firing pin spring or pin itself. If you haven't replaced the spring in a while I'd do that 1st.
Have your gunsmith look at these things & ask him to borescope the barrel. If at all possible ask him to show you how to maintain your bolt to as this should be done pretty frequently. If your not comfortable with that then disregard.
Maybe go poke around on the Anschutz forum on rimfire central to see if you can find some of they're quirks.
To have been shooting in the 240's & to drop to the 220's seems a little drastic. Was or is this consistently shooting these #'s?
Keith

 

[PedroS]

Indeed the drop in performance is a bit drastic.
I shoot an Anschutz 2013/500A and had had some performance drops (not so drastic, thought) until I understood what's the round number before a complete rifle clean process...

Before going to the ammo route, I'll go through the bolt... complete disassembling and cleaning, new spring, check for bends, friction, etc.
Through the barrel. Is it clean? What about that dreaded carbon ring? Do what Anschutz recommends for cleaning.
And through the stock, bedding, screws torque...

 

[)Stephan]

Keith, thanks for the hint. I will take a close look at the bolt and yes, it does look pretty dirty really fast.
Maybe my dealer also has a borescope.. In case he does not - i hope mine (lyman) will arrive early next year..
With the Tenex I have always shot around 240 (over, not under) with my best score being 245 (only once).
It's still the same lot and maybe I have shot 600 rounds so far with this lot.. I also had Eley match once, it also performed well over 235 (maybe it would have done better if I had my new stock back then..)

Pedro, I checked torque on all screws just a few days ago.. How much does the carbon ring affect your accuracy..?
And what do you mean by "round number before a complete clean process"?
I clean the barrel after every day of shooting.

Thanks again,
Stephan


P.S. Bedding? Probably a stupid question but do you bed rimfire actions..?
I only have the stock installed with the 2 action screws and I tightened to Anschütz's recommendations (4.5- 5 NewtonMeters..)

 

[tim]

Keith, thanks for the hint. I will take a close look at the bolt and yes, it does look pretty dirty really fast.
Maybe my dealer also has a borescope.. In case he does not - i hope mine (lyman) will arrive early next year..
With the Tenex I have always shot around 240 (over, not under) with my best score being 245 (only once).
It's still the same lot and maybe I have shot 600 rounds so far with this lot.. I also had Eley match once, it also performed well over 235 (maybe it would have done better if I had my new stock back then..)

Pedro, I checked torque on all screws just a few days ago.. How much does the carbon ring affect your accuracy..?
And what do you mean by "round number before a complete clean process"?
I clean the barrel after every day of shooting.

Thanks again,
Stephan


P.S. Bedding? Probably a stupid question but do you bed rimfire actions..?
I only have the stock installed with the 2 action screws and I tightened to Anschütz's recommendations (4.5- 5 NewtonMeters..)

Start cleaning your barrel after every couple of boxes, and learn how to clean the throat, you want no carbon built up there.

 

[Rayhill]

Rim fire and weather

Stephan, you have asked some good questions and have gotten some good advice , now I'll ask
you a good question. Are you using wind flags?

 

[linekin]

Yes Stephan they do need bedding to shoot consistently. Its really a must to do so.
I've seen guns with no bedding whatsoever that shoot better than they should but it isn't the norm. And they aren't very consistent. That's what we're after. Time & time again. You don't want that variable to bite you in the butt so to speak.
Also I think you stated that you had a completely different stock for your Annie. While you're at your gunsmith's ask him for his thoughts on the fitment there as well. It doesn't seem like that's you're problem as you say you were pretty consistent in the 240's but it should be looked at.
Keith

 

[blades]

40 degrees if the ammo is at that same temp it will drop velocity. We sometimes have frozen ( literately) finger shoots. Standard velocity ammo will drop almost 200 fps and High velocity will be in the normal standard velocity range ( sometimes it is a balmy 10 degs out) a hot day would be about 30 degsF. Had a friend with an Annie , lube was so hard could not even chamber round- tight match chamber. same things that affect center fire in cold weather shooting affect rimfires. Barrel on my 40x - if its below 60 degs F - I don't even take it with me.

 

[PedroS]

Pedro, I checked torque on all screws just a few days ago.. How much does the carbon ring affect your accuracy..?
And what do you mean by "round number before a complete clean process"?
I clean the barrel after every day of shooting.

P.S. Bedding? Probably a stupid question but do you bed rimfire actions..?
I only have the stock installed with the 2 action screws and I tightened to Anschütz's recommendations (4.5- 5 NewtonMeters..)

The carbon ring built just where the bullet leaves the case... after a certain thickness you loose accuracy rather fast. I clean my barrel after every other card. So before 100 rounds...
Cleaning means removing the carbon ring...

Yes I do bed my rimfire, the majority of us do it.
The torque for a wood stock is about right around 5Nm

Reading all again I think your trouble is either shooting with a very different wind, or, more probably, a cleaning issue

 

[Shootenhoot]

Being a working stiff, I will not waste expensive ammo practicing below 50 Deg F. In most years, this one being an oddly warm exception, that usually means outside rimfire season lasts from April to October up here. That's a long down time before the league begins in mid-April now. Once it does begin, we shoot regardless of weather, other than this past year with one wind driven sleet storm where we skipped by unanimous decision, as it was blowing directly at our scopes under the canopy. I mention this because there's always an exception to my rule. Early in my first league season year before last, we had dead calm, steady rain with an air temperature of 39 Deg F and in that 4 card shoot, I averaged just over 2175 for the four, including one 2250. Not Nationals level, but for me, the biggest factor was absolute calm wind. The steady rain drops didn't seem to be a factor other than slightly puckered cards. Our range has berms on 3 sides and is anything but a "honey pot". Swirling currents that vary up and down the course, including up and down drafts if you draw a position near the windward berm. This season, we had more windy league nights than the year before and my average showed it. I get the effect wind has upon POI, but looking down the range at one flag pointing left, one right, one toward and one constantly spinning is discouraging as its hard to nail down a setup that repeats in a timely fashion. My rifles, ammo, scope, eyes do not hold me back. My difficulty waiting for my setup to come back around, assuming it ever does, is a killer. I have resigned to my fate of having to bring an extra box of ammo, just for sighters over the course of 4 cards. I hope to gain more patience the longer I shoot and move up above the below #100 down from the top of the national average as reported by Killoughs. Locally, I ended my first year in second place but fell to 5th this past year.

Here's looking forward to the new year!

Hoot

FWIW, the funniest thing I saw was one of the league members out in January (-5 Deg F) with a portable ground blind / tent over his shooting position and a sunflower heater going inside. Come to think of it, I have one of those blinds and a sunflower heater. If I get cabin fever too bad, I may have to give it a try, assuming the humidity isn't too bad inside. We are not fortunate enough to have a local "barn" or similar indoor range, otherwise I would be buying more expensive ammo than I already have to.

 

[wicklowman]

Hey boys and girls,

Just wanted to ask how you are adopting to weather regarding ammo.

I had some Tenex lots tested and ordered the most promising one.
Now during the cold weather it does not perform the same as during summer..

Does a tuner help? Or do you shoot different lots in different conditions?

I have an Anschütz Br50 bagrider stock and a 1913action. I stilll have the original barrel installed - it does shoot good enough for me.
Also I have a Nightforce 32x Scope mounted, but maybe it will be replaced by a T36 for less weight.


Cheers,
Stephan

Hi Stephen.I have shot many Anschutz in my time in this benchrest game .
I had a Anchutz br50 stock on a factory rifle but could not get it to shoot consistently, so I changed the stock to a Shenane one, the rifle shot 5 points better.(bedded).WE have real weather changes here in the UK ,on some ranges you can have all 4 seasons on the same day.
On advice I changed my ammo from Eley to R50 and had improvements (still use R50)Another thing I did was remove excessive lube from both Tenex and the R50(some batches seem to have more lube than others).You will have all sorts of advice on the merits of various components and attchments ,I have shot without a tuner on my old Annie with good results but I finaly got into using a tuner and find big changes to scores on some rifles and not so much on others, (but better to have one fitted than not).John F.

 

[)Stephan]

Thank you guys for all the replies!
Today I showed the rifle to my local (rimfire) gunsmith. I do believe everything I asked made him think I live on the moon or somewhere next to it..
But what he did is he checked the stock and torque and it was good. He also told me that changing the Barrel would be an Option, but it is not screwed in but somehow bolted (i don't know the word, sorry..) so for changing the Barrel he would send it to Anschütz and let them do it.. Problem is, they only Change it for a new 1913 Barrel.. not what I was thinking of..

Also before that I let them test my rifle in a Shooting tunnel, they fixed it in a Shooting machine and we did an ammo test.
I did this before maybe 2 years ago and now the results have been less exciting... the best lot (RWS Special Match I think) was about 0.51 Inch center-to-Center @50 meters...
He also tested R50 and Center-X etc. but even if the first 5-10 shots grouped well there have been flyers opening the group up a lot..
Kindly he also let me test my own box of Tenex and it was just as good as the Special Match.. As I said, the ammo test was done in a tunnel without any wind or changing conditions. But of course it was quite cold because it was below ground.

Probably it would be best to just wait for better weather.. meanwhile I can look around and check who can bed my stock

P.S. Yes, I have a set of 6 flags and I like using them a lot.

P.P.S. do you use IOSSO or JB on rimfire Barrels...? I'm still waiting for my borescope so I can't check if the barrel is really clean yet.

PPPS: Thanks for the lube/wax hint! I was told the same at the nationals this year.