Rimfire chambers

[tim]

Tim,

I don't recall. You are referring to when they introduced the EPS bullet aren't you.

I remember there being two schools of thought. Some thought the round nose shot best others thought the EPS bucked the wind best.

I don't recall anyone doing a test between the two when they were both still available.

TKH (4628)

No, if I recall correctly, after the EPS bullet was introduced I believe they changed the driveband to ogive dimension to alter center of balance for a bump in stability.
Question arises because chambers of a certain vintage would have changed engraving pre vs post change.
Made me curious.

 

[jim1K]

Jim,

Let me make sure I understand what you said.

Are you saying when one inserts a round into a Nevious chamber, and closes the bolt, you will not see any engraving marks on the bullet where the lands cut the bullet?

TKH (4628)

Tony, that is correct, I used different magnification and was concerned about and I text Lee about it and thats the way they are... At the test site at Lapua in Ohio ten shot groups were small at 50 and 100 meters. That was bolted in a machine rest and no tuner adjustment..... Jim

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, that is correct, I used different magnification and was concerned about and I text Lee about it and thats the way they are... At the test site at Lapua in Ohio ten shot groups were small at 50 and 100 meters. That was bolted in a machine rest and no tuner adjustment..... Jim

Jim,

I have looked and I can't find anything Kevin has said about bullet engagement to the lands.

I wish Kevin would join this discussion and tell us more.

One would think if the bullet slammed into the lands the leade would very soon build up with fouling. In no time at all this fouling would build up enough to resize the bullet.

I have read that lead bullets (skirts) cannot expand to fill the bore once deformed.

Something is wrong here because there have been some really good results from using Kevin's reamer.

We are missing something.

TKH (4628)

 

[linekin]

Tony, I believe I read Kevin's remarks about how much he was engraving bullets on Stiller's site. Search either Chambers or Lapua?? I'd also read Lee's remarks on it as well.
I can see the engraving on the lot of Midas I have but it ain't much. I'm trying to get a decent picture of it & thats been difficult. I've got some Dykem on a bullet now & will try that.
EDIT: Pic below is the best I could get. Looks to go thru the 1st driving band & thats it. This was with a BM 3G. Its been as consistent a heavy rifle as I've ever had. Not great, but I've had very limited lots of Lapua too. I've been using Center-X as it really been all I could source. I've been pleased with it.

EDIT2: Tony, & others. Here was a great thread
http://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/Foru...ing-chambers-for-Lapua-use?highlight=chambers

Keith

 

[jim1K]

I tried everything to see it but at best you may a shiny spot from the leade touching. Evelio McDonald did the chambering..... Jim

 

[tonykharper]

I tried everything to see it but at best you may a shiny spot from the leade touching. Evelio McDonald did the chambering..... Jim

Jim,

Look at linekin's post #44.

If you blow up that pic, you can see the land mark on the bullet going through the first driving band but no further.

As I understand it this barrel was chambered with a Kevin's reamer.

TKH (4628)

 

[jim1K]

Jim,

Look at linekin's post #44.

If you blow up that pic, you can see the land mark on the bullet going through the first driving band but no further.

As I understand it this barrel was chambered with a Kevin's reamer.

TKH (4628)

Tony, that is what I was looking for but that isn't the case...... Jim

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, that is what I was looking for but that isn't the case...... Jim

Jim,

It is apparent that either your chamber is cut too deep, or Keith didn't bore his deep enough.

Do you know if the Nevious reamer has a hard stop on it? I've never seen one.

Looks like Nevious isn't going to join the conversation and let us know how he intended his reamer to be used.

I guess the only question now is does your rifle shoot up to your expectations? If so, no problem.

TKH (4628)

 

[jim1K]

Tony, at the Lapua test site my best group at 50 meters was 11.02, that was bolted into there jig and no tuner adjustment and that was 24 speed. I'm sure after it is back it the stock and I can set the tuner it will get better. Jim

 

[linekin]

My reamer does not have a stop.
A PTG Match reamer I have does. It shows a .630 length. Up until I did this last barrel it is what I'd had a little success with. Shot Eley much better than the Lapua. It too has the 1 1/2 deg. leade.

Keith

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, at the Lapua test site my best group at 50 meters was 11.02, that was bolted into there jig and no tuner adjustment and that was 24 speed. I'm sure after it is back it the stock and I can set the tuner it will get better. Jim

Jim,

11.02 mm groups are impressive. But I have learned to never look at my best groups and think that it what my rifle is shooting. If I, do I get disappointed more often than not.

I always remember everyone has a wallet group or two. Look at your worst group and hope to do better than that.

I was taught, in math classes, to never average, averages. But I do when comparing group sizes. It is mathematically, wrong but it gives me a better idea of what to expect.

All this said, the only thing that matters is that you feel confident in the way it shoots. The worse thing possible is when you lose confidence in what you are shooting. It will get you beat everytime.

TKH (4628)

 

[tonykharper]

My reamer does not have a stop.
A PTG Match reamer I have does. It shows a .630 length. Up until I did this last barrel it is what I'd had a little success with. Shot Eley much better than the Lapua. It too has the 1 1/2 deg. leade.

Keith

Keith,

Since we don't know the depth of Jim's chamber, we have no way to know why his doesn't engrave the bullet.

Do you know if the Nevius reamer spec sheet calls for a .630 length?

None of the reamers I own have a stop. But the drawings show a chamber depth.

I've never paid much attention to it because I thought where I was on the bullet to be the important thing.

TKH (4628)

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, at the Lapua test site my best group at 50 meters was 11.02, that was bolted into there jig and no tuner adjustment and that was 24 speed. I'm sure after it is back it the stock and I can set the tuner it will get better. Jim

Jim,

I forgot to ask. How many rounds can you fire before you start throwing shots?

TKH (4628)

 

[linekin]

Tony, look at George's post in the ARA National thread. There is a print of the reamer. I did not have one or know what it called for. All I knew was what I had read that he preferred .030 engraving. I read it online!
See post #13 http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?104523-ARA-Indoor-Nationals

I did not care what it called for as I measured as I went from the back of the case & subtracting rim thickness.
Hope this answers your question.
If you'd like I can take a stub & bury my PTG .630 in it & get you an engraving measurement.

Keith

 

[Evelio]

Keith,

Since we don't know the depth of Jim's chamber, we have no way to know why his doesn't engrave the bullet.

Do you know if the Nevius reamer spec sheet calls for a .630 length?

None of the reamers I own have a stop. But the drawings show a chamber depth.

I've never paid much attention to it because I thought where I was on the bullet to be the important thing.

TKH (4628)

Tony, the reamer that I use when the customer ask for a Nevius chamber is a PTG Bill Myers reamer, same as the Nevius reamer, is a tapered reamer with no stop, but I have a micrometer stop on it so I can control the depth one thousand at the time. I have it set to when I insert a loaded Lapua round in the chamber, will measure .075"/.080" total stick out, which using .043" headspace will give me .032"/.037" engraving. It is actually pretty hard to see it in the bullet itself, it will barely put a shiny mark in the beginning of the first band.
Jim,
The only way to check the depth of your chamber once the barrel is installed in the action, is to insert a loaded round in the chamber, and LIGHTLY push it in with your finger until you feel it stop, you should be able to see a gap between the back of the chamber, and the front of the case rim, just remember .035" is not much. The ream should not touch the chamber unless you actually force it in with your finger.
Evelio.

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, look at George's post in the ARA National thread. There is a print of the reamer. I did not have one or know what it called for. All I knew was what I had read that he preferred .030 engraving. I read it online!
See post #13 http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?104523-ARA-Indoor-Nationals

I did not care what it called for as I measured as I went from the back of the case & subtracting rim thickness.
Hope this answers your question.
If you'd like I can take a stub & bury my PTG .630 in it & get you an engraving measurement.

Keith

Keith,

I saw that drawing. Didn't really help me.

If Nevius says .030-.035 engraving, and I wanted to do it his way, I would have done just that. Even though I may have got there a little differently.

I do mine my way only because I don't know of a better way. I'm sure we all do.

The important thing is whomever shoots the thing has to be happy and confident with it.

Thanks for your input.

TKH (4628)

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, the reamer that I use when the customer ask for a Nevius chamber is a PTG Bill Myers reamer, same as the Nevius reamer, is a tapered reamer with no stop, but I have a micrometer stop on it so I can control the depth one thousand at the time. I have it set to when I insert a loaded Lapua round in the chamber, will measure .075"/.080" total stick out, which using .043" headspace will give me .032"/.037" engraving. It is actually pretty hard to see it in the bullet itself, it will barely put a shiny mark in the beginning of the first band.
Jim,
The only way to check the depth of your chamber once the barrel is installed in the action, is to insert a loaded round in the chamber, and LIGHTLY push it in with your finger until you feel it stop, you should be able to see a gap between the back of the chamber, and the front of the case rim, just remember .035" is not much. The ream should not touch the chamber unless you actually force it in with your finger.
Evelio.

Evelio,

Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize that the Bill Myers reamer and the Nevius reamer were the same.

But now you mentioned it, it was obvious. Both are tapered and both called for a 1.5-degree leades.

I still have a barrel or two that Bill chambered, I'll have to insert some bullets and look at them to see how much they engrave.

Of course, we are only looking at rough numbers since we don't know what ammo Bill set my barrels up for.

Who knows what the working lengths were then?

I certainly don't remember.

TKH (4628)

 

[jim1K]

Jim,

11.02 mm groups are impressive. But I have learned to never look at my best groups and think that it what my rifle is shooting. If I, do I get disappointed more often than not.

I always remember everyone has a wallet group or two. Look at your worst group and hope to do better than that.

I was taught, in math classes, to never average, averages. But I do when comparing group sizes. It is mathematically, wrong but it gives me a better idea of what to expect.

All this said, the only thing that matters is that you feel confident in the way it shoots. The worse thing possible is when you lose confidence in what you are shooting. It will get you beat everytime.

TKH (4628)

Tony, I don't do wallet groups and I admit I'm new at .22 BR. I don't and can't at this point in life be competitive anymore it is kind of a end game for me at 78. In my day I set 5 world records at 1000 yds. so I know a little what it takes to be competitive. I have to wait till spring to get out back to set the tuner and I will know more.
In the mean timeI have barrels to break in and bullets and primers to sort and cases to fire form for next year, if there is a next year..... Jim

 

[tonykharper]

Tony, I don't do wallet groups and I admit I'm new at .22 BR. I don't and can't at this point in life be competitive anymore it is kind of a end game for me at 78. In my day I set 5 world records at 1000 yds. so I know a little what it takes to be competitive. I have to wait till spring to get out back to set the tuner and I will know more.
In the mean timeI have barrels to break in and bullets and primers to sort and cases to fire form for next year, if there is a next year..... Jim

Jim,

You go for it. I’m not far behind you. At this point the only thing that matters is we are having fun doing whatever we are doing.

TKH (4628)

 

[jim1K]

Jim,

You go for it. I’m not far behind you. At this point the only thing that matters is we are having fun doing whatever we are doing.

TKH (4628)

Tony, I hope to bump into you at Wilson or McKeesport this summer, So it's all about a little fun now ..... Jim