Rifle comparison

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pacecil

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What happened to this thread?

Wilbur, After I started this I saw that you deleted the thread because it was unable to "recover". What does that mean? Nobody was calling anybody names and there was only one or two brief mentions of Calfee rifles. Why was thread deleted?
 
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I, for one, would like to know the resolution of whether there are persons posting under more than one name. I guess I went to bed too early last night
Melvin
 
Well if there was nothing in that one there is certainly nothing in this one so goodby to all!
 
the way i scored it....
Beau let Squatty use his computer from time to time.
i got no problem with loanin yur puter !!!
madrox fessed up to using beau's i.p. address
i may be and usually am wrong...jest ask my wife:confused:
 
Okay, I said I wouldn't post, if this is me, but I'm gonna set at least a few things straight.

1. If anybody including super moderators think that I didn't know my IP was logged everytime my computer was used, they're a fool. Wilbur put IP's beside each post back around 1997, why would I think that he had lost that capability? I can change my IP on every post, why didn't I do that? Because for one I did nothing against the rules, read them and see. For another I didn't really think anybody would care how I used my computer as long as it was not obscene or illegal in which case it would go to another jurisdiction.

2. Bill Wynne must feel like he cracked the crime of the century, but all he ever had to do was call, e-mail, or private message and tell me he had rather I not use my computer that way on the rimfire board. Although it is my computer and I have the right to use it anyway I choose, so long as it is not illegal, I would have complied. The same goes for Wilbur. Bear in mind neither chose to contact me, although it is very simple.

3. Martin seems to think this is an effort to defraud a group of people who are practically saints. I would like someone to do a comprehensive survey and see how many IP addresses turn up under different names on this site. I suspect there are many.

4. Finally, no one was defrauded, there were no damages, there was no collusion, there was no gang posts, and all three people exist.

5. I received further accusations by e-mail yesterday that were totally false. So, if you want to accuse me of being Jimmy Hoffa, the Zodiac Killer, Amelia Earhart, Jack the Ripper, D.B. Cooper, then go ahead, I don't care.

6. With no bad luck, I'll be on the range come summer time, which is probably more than most of the posters here can say.
 
RFC is looking better

Pacecil, Before we go tell me what " lets move on " means. Maybe i should take the hint and take BENCHREST CENTRAL off my favorite bar and put up RFC. I don't have to agree with what's written here , to enjoy reading it. Go figure. On the positive side it may soon be cheaper to advertise here. See ya on the other site. CS
 
There's no way to know

Further, the last thing I want to do is match wits with 20,000 community members with 500,000 hotmail addresses. As Beau stated - no harm done.

pacecil - your thread continues to be hijacked with non-pertinent posts. I believe the last one turned into who was posting as who rather than the "comparison" you wish to see.

A guy found a lamp, gave it a rub and a genie flew out offering him a single wish. The guy held out a map of the middle east and said he wanted peace there. The genie stated that the wish was too much and the guy should come up with something else. The guy then asked that the genie show pacecil the rifle comparison he was trying to find and the genie said "Lemme see that map again."

Yeah, I know, that joke ain't never been much funny.
 
now i got to clean the coffee off my monitor...hehehe.....:D:D:D
Wilbur..you iz funny:cool:
 
Melvin Calliham said:
I, for one, would like to know the resolution of whether there are persons posting under more than one name. I guess I went to bed too early last night
Melvin
Click to expand...

Yes, there are persons posting under more than one name....but, what difference does it make? We would all prefer that it "ain't so" but it is so and in the final analysis it doesn't matter anyhows.
 
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I was really hoping for the original question to be answered too! (Or at least a little information to draw some conclusion from!)

I love this forum, and have recieved some great information here........but WOW has it changed (not saying it's bad, it has just changed in recent years).

BTW.......changes I could have lived without - Eley SA ammunition, 6 O'Clock offset chambers, measuring balloons with micrometers and drama (of any kind).

I have a teenaged daughter............nuf said.

kev
 
I'll take a shot at the original question, although the D.B. Cooper guy Beau mentioned is a more interesting topic.

PaCecil-- Sir
We COMPARE these rifles every single time we have match. Go on the sites for the different orgs and just examine the scores. Nothing else much matters. You can have the most accurate rifle at the match and still lose, it happens a lot. From April thru October I'm shooting somewhere every weekend, sometimes on Saturday and Sunday. To try and put definitives on the game is surely difficult and may be impossible.

If you look at the recent ARA indoor Nationals, one rifle was a little better than all the rest, and that includes the other rifles built by the same guy.
All of Mr. Calfee's or anyone else's rifles can't be the winner in the same contest. It's just possible.
 
Kent Owens said:
I'll take a shot at the original question, although the D.B. Cooper guy Beau mentioned is a more interesting topic.

PaCecil-- Sir
We COMPARE these rifles every single time we have match. Go on the sites for the different orgs and just examine the scores. Nothing else much matters. You can have the most accurate rifle at the match and still lose, it happens a lot. .

Nailed it again Kent
Click to expand...
 
Ok, I'll try another post here - trying to get in before the thread is deleted. It seems many shooters feel the use of group size to gauge a rifles accuracy would be a waste of time - it being generally considered that shooting in a match, or at least shooting for score is the only way to compare rifles or to determine just how good a rifle may be.

This may be true, and maybe to support it....I was at a gun show Saturday and looked at a table full of Cooper rifles. Each rifle had a tag/target attached to it with one 5 shot group fired with that rifle. These groups, which I questioned as being fired at 50 yards, were absolutely the best groups I ever saw. All were in the 0's with some actually being ZERO as best as I could measure with the eye. The dealer insisted they were shot at 50 yards. Now, are these the world's most accurate rim fire rifles? These were just sporter weight guns with no tuners! With the right stocks, and in the hands of the best shooters, why wouldn't these guns make the world's most accurate bench guns?
 
Pacecil,
Cooper makes some great rifles which is the reason a few years ago I tried my hardest to get Dan Cooper to build a BR Trigger and a competitive BR sporter. Based on some early prototype’s he sent me I felt it was a better action than my Anschutz.
If I remember right all their test targets are shot in a tunnel about 43 yards long.
Believe it or not they were shooting off of sand bags they piled on top of 2X4’s and 4X4’s but the guys doing the testing knew their Rifles & Equipment!
I hope this answers your questions on distance and maybe a little more?
 
pacecil,
Of course you want a rifle that shoots tiny groups. Thats what I look for when tuning one anyway. The closer to center the bullet is the better the score on a target. To get those small groups you need a shooter who can read the conditions and shoot only when the condition is right.
Lots of rifles will shoot a few good shots and leak one out here and there, due to fouling or leading or whatever. One that will shoot shots 45-50 in as small of a group as they do shots 5-10 is working well.

You can take a rifle shooting outdoors that'll group in the 0's under and ideal condition and shoot a 1" group aiming at the X if you fire random shots in 9 oclock, 10 oclock, 3 oclock, etc. condition with a 5 mph wind.
Some time back I was at the range and a friend of mine who is NOT a rimfire BR shooter had bought a new Super America Kimber sporting rifle. Beautiful rifle! He was disappointed in it because he couldn't get a single group to match the test target. He asked me to shoot it and see what I thought the problem was. I had already put out wind flags, and wind was neglible but still enough to cause poor groups if you shot the wrong angle. I got a box of Eley match ammo from my bag and fired a few sighters to lube the barrel and then shot a 5 shot group with his rifle in the low .2's, better than his test target.
He said there was so little wind, that he didn't think it was an issue. I sold him a brick of the ammo so he would have some to shoot when he wanted to have fun. Anyway, he left happy with his rifle after that.
 
After finally getting my rifle tuned back in July, I have shot many groups, and in a preferred condition, my rifle will shoot very consistently in the low .2's

With seeing some say you need a .1" to .15" rifle to be 'in the running', I guess I am behind the curve to start with.

I was at least competitive with the guys I shoot with, who are not slouches by any stretch. They hold quite a few national, regional and state titles.

That's good enough for me as I can't afford to travel and do many big matches.

I have not seen any of their rifles shoot much, if any tighter than mine on a regular basis. Certain days mine was better, certain days theirs was better.

Only time I ever saw a rifle shoot mid .1's down to high .0's, was at 25 yards, not 50.
 
Pacecil

pacecil said:
Ok, I'll try another post here - trying to get in before the thread is deleted. It seems many shooters feel the use of group size to gauge a rifles accuracy would be a waste of time - it being generally considered that shooting in a match, or at least shooting for score is the only way to compare rifles or to determine just how good a rifle may be.

This may be true, and maybe to support it....I was at a gun show Saturday and looked at a table full of Cooper rifles. Each rifle had a tag/target attached to it with one 5 shot group fired with that rifle. These groups, which I questioned as being fired at 50 yards, were absolutely the best groups I ever saw. All were in the 0's with some actually being ZERO as best as I could measure with the eye. The dealer insisted they were shot at 50 yards. Now, are these the world's most accurate rim fire rifles? These were just sporter weight guns with no tuners! With the right stocks, and in the hands of the best shooters, why wouldn't these guns make the world's most accurate bench guns?
Click to expand...
You need to buy a couple of those rifles and see if you can match those groups at the range. Let me know how that works for you. Rimfire benchrest shooters already know the answer to your question.
 
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