Riddle Me This

Agreed, but if centerfire and rimfire shooters want the same results with different methods. I want a small group and I want the smallest group. At least typically. If I can adjust the barrel better at 38-42 yards to get the maximum precision, I'm not worried about impact at 50 yards. I'll adjust the scope for that. But, one qualifier may be this is score shooting.

I would like to know more about the 303's and if anyone was able to use the knowledge to their advantage. If it's applied physics, it wouldn't seem to be impossible by now. Do you have any references to websites or anything?
 
One more time

Madrox said:
That would be no different that adjusting the tuner for each round. Where the round initially hits on the ultimate target is of no consequence to me as long as the precision is excellent. I think tuners tune the barrel for maximum precision. I don't even give a crap about the velocity variation if the grouping is excellent, which it probably won't be with major variations in the same lot. This is no different than benchrest shooters have done for years. They don't worry about where the group prints as long as it prints within the range of the target that is legal and can be measured. IF they wanted that tiny little group to hit the center of the target instead of off to the side, what on earth would they do? They would, in my opinion, use those things in the center of the scope, that adjust the reticle relative to the target in order to effectively move the group to the center of the target. Any argument there? So, I'm unconcerned if I can get various velocity rimfire rounds to hit the same place at 50 yards, if, in fact, I can determine the maximum precision at 38 to 42 yards. If I use a slower, precise bullet, I'll adjust the scope to hit the target where I want. Vice Versa with a faster round. Not real hard to understand really. You don't even have to go back to the physics books or watch The Big Bang Theory. By the way, how many of you techies have Flash comics and Spiderman T-shrits?
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Madrox,
Let's try this one more time. Let's say you are shooting a two-shot group from a lot of ammo with advertised velocity of 1050fps, but the first shot is actually 1040fps and the second is 1060fps. You couldn't know these velocities beforehand, because you just picked the cartridges randomly from the box. For the same reason, you would have no basis for making rifle or scope adjustments between shots. Because it is faster, the second shot strikes the target, let's say, 0.25" higher if the muzzle is stationary. But if the muzzle is rising at exactly the right speed, the two shots will go through the same hole.

This is how tuned rifles work, whether you care about the mechanisms behind it or not. It doesn't require a different tuner setting for each shot. It has nothing to do with scope adjustments or where the group prints on the target. With no adjustments to the rifle or scope between shots, groups are smaller when the muzzle is rising. Furthermore, because velocity variations are unavoidable, the only way to achieve maximum precision is with a rising muzzle.

Hope this helps,
Keith
 
I understand now. You're just playing the odds; maybe we all are. Maybe you'll get maximum precision, maybe not.

I've tuned a lot of 22 rifles and never had heard of Bill Calfee's 42 yard test until after I had tuned a bunch. Remember Calfee's 42 yard test is only that; it's proof that he has the rifle tuned; nothing more. But, I noticed that, for score purposes, my rifles shot better when slow bullets hit low and fast bullets hit high. Knowing that because of barrel time, that was not normally the case at 50 yards, it came to me in an epiphany. For max precision on a rimfire, there had to be a place back of 50 yards that the two bullet paths would intersect. It's not hard to find an it's between 38 and 42 yards. So, I tune at about 40 yards. I want the groups of any velocity to place together on the target at that point. However, I know it will not at 50 yards and I don't care. Since I shoot for score, I'll simply adjust the scope to get the bullet ( and by bullet I mean a particular lot that has been tested and proven; I know you can't predict exactly what it will do; it's a statistical thing) hitting where I want. It's easy. It works for me; it has for a long time. Maybe it doesn't work for you, or maybe you haven't really tried it. Whatever, that's the way I'll keep doing it. I would say that most rimfire shooters should do the same thing. But to each his own. By the way, I know I have good ammo before doing any tuning. Some people don't understand that is a necessity.
 
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"Place together on the target"

How close is "place together on the target"?
 
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