Reverse taper

reverse taper

Sounds to me like reverse taper is strickly for the competition & benchrest shooters. So thank u guys for answering my question
 
Fredj, my attorney has advised me to remove the figures 1047 and replace with slow. in addition she reminded me not to mention the 8lb test line was trilene and the tippet material was rio powerflex. then my publicist reminded me to tell a story about lunch. bacon, lettuce tomato a slice of yellow american on whole wheat. my attorney advised against mentioning the mayo was hellmans. I would just crap if anyone else stuck their neck out to explain their tuning method just one time. that's all just once.
 
Slick Willy

Slick Willy said:
Tony, Chattannooga 10/24 You had everybody covered in some pretty tough conditions. Was that Turbo in Tune that day? I hope that we get a chance to see Martin put on a tuning clinic when the PSL rolls in to Pa. :eek:
Click to expand...

Chattannooga, was one of the highlights of my shooting last year. We saw some great sights, everyone should see the country around Chattannooga.

At the match everyone made my wife and I, feel welcome. Great group of people, great range, very well ran match, and I can't say enough about that white bean chile.

There are many great shooters down there. But in the end, I lucked out. As far as the rifle being tuned? I think so, but as the saying goes, I would rather be lucky than good. Hope to see you guys at the PSL.

Martin has shot his best matches at Fairchance (also known as Fatchance) so I expect he will be there. ( Right Martin?)
Should be a great match.

Tony
 
tuning a reverse taper...

If you will look at Varmint Al's results you will see that he was not able to show an improvement in a reverse taper barrel by adding a tuner. The reverse taper was best, and better than other barrels, without a tuner.

What do you say about this Martin?
 
Thanks Pacecil

Now I know why I thought Varmint Al was talking about a reverse taper without a tuner.

It was has you said, Varmint Al's rifle preformed best without a tuner. At least in his calculations.

Last year I shot two reverse taper barrels on two different rifles, but found I needed a tuner on both of them.

I think everyone I know that shoots reverse taper barrels also uses tuners.

Perhaps what works on paper doesn't necessarily work on the range.

Tony
 
What's on the Target?

I want to see actual results, as every barrel is different, there is no set rule.
 
What works on paper “will” work on the range, but the problem is that calculations and computer simulations are only as good as their inputs. Surely you’ve all seen the acronym: “GIGO” (garbage in garbage out)?

I trust the work Varmint Al has done on his web site but you all have to remember that every reverse taper barrel isn’t identical. They will all differ dimensionally in taper, weight, or length and if Varmint Al were to change those variables from the specific barrel he modeled....his results would change also.

Don’t make the mistake of discounting his work by applying generalizations to it!

Anecdotal evidence, poor testing methodology, a vocal minority, and just plain BS has probably irreparably harmed our pursuit of rimfire accuracy. Until people start studying and adopting scientific methods of testing and analyzing data....we’ll remain in nothing more than a holding pattern and it saddens me.

Rant Over.....flame away!

Landy
 
Landy

Perhaps I said it wrong.

I wasn't trying to say actual practice never follows sound principals as discovered by computer models, or other science based studies. That would be just plain crazy.

What I was saying was that I, nor anyone I'm aware of, seems to shoot reverse taper barrels without tuners.

So, although the model indicates no tuners should be needed. Most people continue to use them anyway.

Is it possible we have become "conditioned" to think we need tuners when, we really don't??

Perhaps more testing is needed.

Sounds like a job for Martin.

Tony
 
Keith23 said:
Perhaps I said it wrong.

I wasn't trying to say actual practice never follows sound principals as discovered by computer models, or other science based studies. That would be just plain crazy.

What I was saying was that I, nor anyone I'm aware of, seems to shoot reverse taper barrels without tuners.

So, although the model indicates no tuners should be needed. Most people continue to use them anyway.

Is it possible we have become "conditioned" to think we need tuners when, we really don't??

Perhaps more testing is needed.

Sounds like a job for Martin.

Tony
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Tony,

You didn’t say anything wrong and, in fact, I agree with most of the above. I used your quote but my post wasn’t directed at you specifically.

As regards reverse taper barrels, or for that matter, any barrel that already shoots small round groups without a tuner....should you add a tuner? Do some of you see a reduction in horizontal dispersion as well as eliminating the vertical? What is everyone’s expectation for tuner improvements?

On more than one occasion, I’ve had rifle/barrel combinations where adding a tuner did more harm than good. It certainly doesn’t happen the majority of the time, but seemingly more often than the rest of you judging by the almost automatic addition of tuners to rifles.

And Martin? I’ve tried very hard to understand what he’s doing but I’m still not sure I’ve deciphered it correctly. Based on what I “think” he’s trying to do....I’ll have to respectfully disagree with his methods.

Landy
 
Landy, I have followed your blog. have read everything I could find on tuning tried every method of tuning. if you think you know what I'm doing your wrong. every time I have tried to post on tuning if it wasn't jekyll and hyde playing 5 different posters it was one of the other calfee groupies shouting me down. just like you getting ticked off over on rimfire central and saying adios, it gets to be ridiculous and the time comes like you did and say whatever. who needs this. there is a reason why over 300,000 rounds of slow speed ammo came in this shipment and was bought. for all the hoopla and talk about testing virtually the entire shipment as all slow speed is bought without testing. and anyone wants a reasonable person to believe in what they are doing. I don't think so.
 
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landy, you cannot shoot one group with one or two barrel contours and publish the results and say their cut in stone. you have to have access to resources.
 
martin hammond said:
landy, you cannot shoot one group with one or two barrel contours and publish the results and say their cut in stone. you have to have access to resources.
Click to expand...

Martin,

The above quote is why I find you so confusing. Are you suggesting I would disagree or something else?

I don’t have a problem being wrong about your methods of tuning. I’ve already admitted that it’s a struggle to understand what you’re doing

I don’t know what the answer is, but unless you can find some means of presenting your theories that will be understandable to the majority....you’re going to continually get “beat-up”. Maybe that’s not fair from your point of view but it is the reality of the current situation.

I think I'm done here unless someone wants to comment on the questions I posed to Tony.

Landy
 
DSCN1178.jpg have you ever tried magnetizing old sight blocks to assist in tuning?
 
Landy

Howdy Landy!
I have to quote you here:

Anecdotal evidence, poor testing methodology, a vocal minority, and just plain BS has probably irreparably harmed our pursuit of rimfire accuracy. Until people start studying and adopting scientific methods of testing and analyzing data....we’ll remain in nothing more than a holding pattern and it saddens me.

Rant Over.....flame away!

Landy


I would respectfully point out that Anecdotal evidence, poor testing methodology, a vocal minority, and just plain BS will always be among us. In any subject. However, folks like you who are willing to put in the effort, and, yup, the expense, to do the scientific methods of testing and analysis of data, are the ones who provide neccesary leadership that FURTHERS the pursuit of rimfire accuracy!

We will all be judged by our words and actions, not just in the end of time either. What folks contribute here will get seperated into wheat and chaff, so to speak. At some point in time, the truth about a particular accuracy problem comes out. Those who are correct will get recognized, as will those who are wrong. And the attitude with which it gets done will be obvious to all. Yours is great, by the way.

Please don't leave, you are in a unique position to contribute much, and I read it with great interest. I bet I am not alone.:)

Greg
 
Hey Greg,

Don’t get me wrong, I love to BS but I prefer my BS’ing be done with a cold beer in front of me and sitting face to face with a friend. LOL

And, I’m not going anywhere! I’ll continue my prolific posting here as usual. Lets see, that’s about 1 post every month or so....right? LOL

Landy
 
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