Resizing mystery (to me, anyway)

vtmarmot

vtmarmot

P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
A few years ago, I purchased a bag of once-fired Black Hills match .308 brass. Should have bought new, I know, but I didn't know any better then. It was nicely cleaned, but not deprimed. Recently, I decided to size it and use it. Through testing, I determined that an RCBS regular full length sizing die with a Redding Competition Shell Holder +.002 would be correct for the chamber I'll be using. I plan to use a Lee collet die on the next loadings. Anyhow, I just sized 50 using Imperial sizing wax. Four out of the fifty would not enter the die more than about half way. They went "SCRONCH" and would have obviously stuck if I had forced the issue any. Didn't matter how much Imperial wax was applied. I carefully measured necks, shoulders, mid-body and web and compared with cases that ultimately sized just fine. I frankly don't see a dimensional problem. I'm wondering if the brass in those cases is somehow significantly harder than the others. I have no way to measure that. Any ideas?
 
Peter, I find that Imperial works very well with my BR cases that are only minimally sized, but it does not have enough lubricity when sizing cases fired in factory chambers. Wayne hit it, use RCBS or any slippery lube.
 
Looking at different lubes

Thanks, Reed. I was beginning to ponder what you just confirmed, that perhaps Imperial was more for the minor sizing jobs. I will try other lubes. A gun shop owner down near where I work is pushing Froglube for everything from lubrication to cleaning to conditioning and preservation. It comes in paste and liquid and is supposedly "all natural" and fully safe. I am thinking of trying it just to quiet her down. I see over on the Accurate Shooter forum that some folks are using it for case lube during sizing and also for a neck turning lube. It hasn't been covered here for almost 2 years. I think I'll start another thread and see if any bench rest people have adopted it for anything in the interim.
 
OK, WHEN YOU STICK ONE..... don't panic and don't rip the casehead off. If it's only halfway in you'll want to crumple the sidewalls with a visegrip and twist the mess out.

And then maybe you'll throw away those cases in future :)

This ain't a caselube issue IMO.

al
 
With the right lube, it should be no big deal.

Back in the day before RCBS Case Lube II, using my then new Rockchucker, and a .22-250 die (with its decapping assembly removed) with the old lanolin based RCBS lube, I backed the die out of the press except a few threads, and repeatedly topping out the ram, and turning in the die a little at a time, working where the leverage is the greatest, turned an old 30-06 case into the world's longest necked .22-250, just to prove that I could. That old lube is a mess to entirely remove from brass, but it does a good job otherwise. For most uses, the newer lubes work fine, but for so called heavy case forming, anhydrous lanolin based lubes are the best that I have seen. (For what you are doing, Case Lube II is probably just fine, and a LOT easier to get off of cases.)

One more tip, when changing lubes, I think that it is a good idea to clean the old lube out of the die, and use a Q tip to put in a light coating of the new stuff. You may get buy without doing this, but it is good insurance.
 
alinwa ........ +1

- This definitely is NOT a case lube problem.
- Imperial Sizing Die Wax is the BEST high pressure lube of all sizing lubricants.
- Clean the inside of your dies with Brake Parts cleaner.
- Drive out stuck cases with an 8" long, 1/4" steel rod.

You can identify those bulged cases with ordinary calipers. Use the wide part of the blades to measure case diameter just above the web (solid part of the case). This is the transition to the web - where your brass is 3 times thicker than the body. It's the only place that makes a case hard to resize.
 
Back many years ago when I was young and more foolish, I got my first Imperial Sizing Die Wax, and having read here and other places that it was the best stuff in the whole world, I lubed up a fired military .30-'06 case, and ran it into a .243 Win FL die without the expander in place (I wasn't that stupid!). Using my Rockchucker press that '06 case went in with no problems and came right back out the funniest looking .243 case you ever saw.

I tend to agree with Al that it's not a lube problem. If the cases were clean and the die was clean the cases should have gone into the die and come back out with no problems. I've FL sized military 7.62x51 brass in an RCBS .308 FL die using Imperial wax and although some were obviously fired in some gawdawful big chambers in M-14's and required some muscle on the handle of the Rockchucker they all sized just fine. Not a stuck case in the bunch. I've FL sized 5.56x45 cases using Imperial wax in a Partner press with no problems, and some of that may well have been fired in SAW's. Same story more leaning on the press handle, but otherwise no problems.
 
I tend to agree

Larry Willis said:
alinwa ........ +1

- This definitely is NOT a case lube problem.
- Imperial Sizing Die Wax is the BEST high pressure lube of all sizing lubricants.
- Clean the inside of your dies with Brake Parts cleaner.
- Drive out stuck cases with an 8" long, 1/4" steel rod.

You can identify those bulged cases with ordinary calipers. Use the wide part of the blades to measure case diameter just above the web (solid part of the case). This is the transition to the web - where your brass is 3 times thicker than the body. It's the only place that makes a case hard to resize.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree.The imperial sizing wax should have done the job. Those rogue cases will measure differently even with dial capliers. Just toss them because even if yoiu get them sized they will probably develop other problems later. As for slippery the most friction reducing lube ever made was made by Ajax chemicals with a brand name of silicone tefolate. Essentially a silicone oil with a viscosity of 450 that has teflon in it. The greater the pressure the slicker it gets. I used it a few times when forming some 218 bee cases for a friend. But the stuff sticks to everything and isn't easy to clean off.
Andy
 
imperial wax

Imperial wax should be sufficient for any standard reloading resizing. If you are FORMING brass lanolin mixed with castor oil works better than anything I have ever used and I form brass for about 15 wildcats.
 
Works for me!

55 years ago when I started to reload, I was told to use (don't laugh) CRISCO ! Never had a problem. Loved to do Wildcats...243 Rockchuckers, 22-250 etc from 30-06 MIL using RCBS dies and WILSON trim tools. A tablespoon of CRISCO will last for more than 5 years and wipes clean with an old cotton sock and a little Naptha.
 
I'm not laughing, I use Wolfe's Head 90 weight gear oil for heavy forming with about the same cleanup. Someone said on another site it was corrosive, but I never had that problem. Imperial is good for regular FL sizing and turning necks but breaks down too fast for heavy forming. Might have to try Crisco. I remember South Bend used to recommend lard oil for drilling and tapping in their lathe manual. A lot of people think that if it isn't marketed as a reloading product that it doesn't work. When you have to withdraw a case from a die because the lube broke down it's hard and miserable, then clean the broke down lube off and relube and go again hoping that it will go the whole way, you will try to find something that will work no matter what it's originally made for.
 
Oh I forgot; I really am not sure the real problem is lube on this particulat thread, however, but I'm not exactly sure, Since others brought lube into it, I thought I'd throw this in.
 
CRISCO!

Holey Cow..... and I thought I'd tried it all! (STP, cam assy lube, pure lanolin, Lanolin/castor, Lanolin/wax, die wax, RCBS, silicone, teflon, boron, moly, One-Shot, STOS, engine oil, tranny fluid etc etc...if it slips, I try it ;) )

LOL
 
Dear TheoW, If you use Crisco make sure to measure your over all length to make sure it is long enough. Remember Crisco is....Shortening. Tim
 
case lube

When I began handloading in the mid- 'sixties, I used Vicks VapoRub and later, Vaseline. I've used Imperial for years now, but don't recall having problems with the first two.
 
I found that Burt's Bees Hand Salve in the round tin to work great, and seems identical to Imperial wax lube. I make sure that the clerk in the Woodstock health food store knows that it is great for resizing cartridges, love the look of horror.......:eek:
 
Mystery Solved

OK, since I've managed to perplex the best current minds in shooting today, I will announce that I've solved my own mystery. This is a weird one. I have been disinterested in this project for a couple of weeks while recuperating from a second new hip in 2 months. Today, I felt energetic enough to tackle it again. I measured the problem cases at all points of the body and neck, and for headspace, and compared them with 12 unsized cases from the same batch. Dimensionally, there was no unusual difference. The 12 test cases sized just fine, as did the next 35 I did. Then I looked at the four problem cases in really good light. I could see lengthwise shiny lines all around the body about 1/8 inch apart. I rotated them through my fingers and could feel slight ridges. Evidently these were fired in a chamber that had chatter marks from the reamer. I went through the next fifty unsized cases feeling for the flats, and found another 6 or so. All those refused to size. I wish to stress that this was not detectable with calipers, as apparently they settled on the flats. I will throw all those cases away as I think trying other lubricants is pointless. I did learn a lot from your comments, so thanks!:eek:
 
vtmarmot ..........

It sounds like you may have described cases that were fired in a fluted H&K chamber.
 
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