Remington - Seven out of twenty 2008 1K

[PPP MMM]

smallest groups shot in the Light Gun were shot with rifles bearing a Remington action. I'm rather impressed just how well the "flexy" Remington action managed to stand up to the stiffer body Custom actions with their longer and larger thread tennons and their smooth operation.
Maybe the action itself is not as important as one would like to think it is.

Shoot better
Peter

 

[jackie schmidt]

Peter

I have always believed that as far as the Rifle goes, Benchrest comes down to Barrels, Bullets, and Tuning. Everything else is, more or less, window dressing.
I think I will stick with my Custom Actions, though.........jackie

 

[Charles E]

. . . I'm rather impressed just how well the "flexy" Remington action managed to stand up to the stiffer body Custom actions with their longer and larger thread tennons and their smooth operation.

I do wonder how many of those were barrel blocked.

But you have a point. Both Joel Pendergraft & Charles Bailey use 700s on their big tube guns -- these are HGs, not LGs. The only thing the action does is to serve as a breech block, & neither of them felt the expense of a custom action was required. Both do their own work; any action truing costs only time.

As to speed: if, like some of us, you grew up with a right bolt, right port, you can shoot that pretty fast, particularly with a big 1K chamberings. Open the bolt with the right hand, pull it back with the left while loading with the right hand. Run the bolt forward with the left hand, close it with the right as the left drops to either the bag (LG) or rear pedestal (HG); you're a bit faster acquiring the target this way. Because Joel's HG "stock" got in the way of pulling the bolt back with his left hand, we added a short rod, pointing straight out, to the bolt shroud on the left side so he could pull the bolt back with his left hand. I don't think anyone shoots 10 shots faster than Joel.

Come to think on it, I'm currently shooting a RBRP (drop port) Viper in point-blank BR. No coned barrel with a drop port. So how is this any faster than a Remington?

Edit: Aside from barrel blocking, some of the Remingtons used at Hawks Ridge are sleeved -- big sleeves, too, some of them steel in HG.

And as far as pulling the bolt back with your left hand, I have an early BAT 10-inch action (single digit serial number), where Bruce only allowed .001 clearance with the bolt. With the tight fit, long bolt throw, & long handle, it will bind. Faster to grab the handle at the root with the left hand & pull it back once you've opened it.

Below a picture of Joel's HG using a Remington 700.

 

[PPP MMM]

I'm of an opinion

That there should be also a "Middle Class" where a gun of unlimited weight should still resemble a rifle, not a 100kg anti-aircraft turret.

There also should be two separate classes. Receiver/barrel Class and Blocked/barrel Class.

Shoot better
Peter

 

[John Kielly]

I'd rather be able to see my shots at 1000. I wonder if there isn't a more than necessary element of pure luck at 1000 yards.

...but don't listen to me. I started shooting in the sixties when guys were still winning centrefire matches with factory components.

 

[Charles E]

where a gun of unlimited weight should still resemble a rifle . . .

You mean like a wheel-lock, or something more modern like the space guns the highpower shooters now use? BTW, the pictured rifle weighs about 36 kilos, not 100.

But I know what you mean. Our aesthetic sense tends to be set when we are young. I still think the E-type Jags were the prettiest cars, until you see the little sticker reading "Electronics by Lucas."

 

[PPP MMM]

John-Charles

I saw number of old magazines from mid-late 70s with a list of 100/200yards Benchrest competition results and equipment and the .222, 22-250 were the most represented and even the .308W had some respectable numbers on the line. Remingtons, Tikkas and Sakos were amongst the most common actions.

Charles, not long ago I was looking at a Rail-gun picks website and honestly if I didn't know beforehand what the things were, I wouldn't even guess that it could be a shooting equipment of some kind. Even with the mounted scopes, the number of massive blocks and large bolt heads everywhere seemed to dwarf and completly conceal the "shooting bits" and it was only the action bolt handles that one could pick and say, that there actually may be a "gun" burried somewhere. Maybe even your gun was there somewhere.

There actually was a gun that I can still call a rifle and it had a "normal" looking stock in every respect that was milled from a solid block of aluminium.

Shoot better
Peter

 

[Jay Idaho]

Joel's Heavy gun is really neat, period. A couple of questions....

Does he have a jack or something that allows him to raise the front rest WITH the rifle in place?

Does he have an "umbilical cord" or something that makes the front bag(s) simply "one" bag or does he have two seperate bags?

These are a couple of things that have caused me problems when I tried to build and use something similar to Joel's.

thanks,

Jay

 

[PPP MMM]

Nice, but where is the trigger?

Joel's Heavy gun is really neat, period. A couple of questions....

This Joel's gun is a prime example of the blocks/bolts/nuts "hidden shooting bits" that I've posted before. A very nice neat looking tool indeed. An imbecile like me can't even find the trigger.

Shoot better
Peter

 

[a.JR]

Hi john ,Thankfully at 1000yd benchrest matchs in Australia as in the US there are shooters that don't deem it necessary to see the bullet holes in the target to be able to get great results in group or the score ..Anyone that has shot 1000yd BR for any length of time will tell you that your supposition that luck is involved 6 inch or better 10 shot group or a 95 or better score when shooting blind is wrong and i might add "having a lend of them selves "IMO ..Then you can add the 6 match aggs to this equation as any right thinking person would have to agree that if it were possibile to Fluke 1 effort then it is impossibile to repeat that 6 times over in a year.. Mabye you should try the original blind method one day ..JR..Jeff Rogers

I'd rather be able to see my shots at 1000. I wonder if there isn't a more than necessary element of pure luck at 1000 yards.

...but don't listen to me. I started shooting in the sixties when guys were still winning centrefire matches with factory components.

 

[Tony Z]

John, fortunately for you in Australia there are two ways of shooting 1000 yard BR. Spotted, ala FClass, and the blind method as used by all the US sanctions.
What is interesting is that all the marks and everything worth winning has been done with the blind method.
I guess the blind shooters are just plain luckier.......... Six times a year.

Tony Z.

 

[John Kielly]

Tony, Jeff,

Guess I didn't write that all that well.

What I was referring to was that this is about the only discipline that I've ever tried that doesn't give me any immediate feedback to build my experience on. Shooting conventionally, it's not until I see my card that I find out how good I selected the time to fire, but no way do I know which shot(s) I screwed up with. It seems to me that the only way to get that experience is to practice under conditions where the fall of shot is marked & then I miss out on the opportunity to build a group during steady (ha!) conditions.

It's no issue at the moment because I'm using my F/TR rifle as a light gun, but when I build a rig specifically for the discipline, I wonder how I should go about it.

How do/did you guys learn?

John

 

[a.JR]

ways

John , All the guys at our home range shoot the standard US system of 6 minute sighters followed by 10 minutes of shoot any time ya want (BLIND)..In 2001 when we started that was the only choice so i guess we grew up with it .. Since the advent at Brisbane and Canberra using the dual system( from Nov 2004) the averages have got worse in stats terms and i understand from some southern shooters there is a move return to the original old ways.. I my experiance the marked (spotted) way of shooting 1000yd BR only has the ability to let you know when you have stuffed up , earlier than if you waited to see the target at the end of the match..Most of the people that like to know whats happening each shot think in terms of a score match only ,but it is actually a two fold match ,one for group and one for score , with group being dominant .. i am a group shooter and if i get it it in the middle ,thats a plus , my 2 only 100 scores have also come at a time when i shot the smallest groups and i know that one can't happen without the other..Although i have been waiting for someone in AUS to come good in score by shooting the marked way,it has not happened at 2 ranges since Nov 2004 ,also i believe that the group will 99% of the time be larger,so i'm not keen to try your system ,ever..JR..Jeff Rogers ..PS . FLY to TSV at the end of this month ,we have 2 1000yd matchs and one 600yd in one weekend , we will endevour to walk you through it all ..

Tony, Jeff,

Guess I didn't write that all that well.

What I was referring to was that this is about the only discipline that I've ever tried that doesn't give me any immediate feedback to build my experience on. Shooting conventionally, it's not until I see my card that I find out how good I selected the time to fire, but no way do I know which shot(s) I screwed up with. It seems to me that the only way to get that experience is to practice under conditions where the fall of shot is marked & then I miss out on the opportunity to build a group during steady (ha!) conditions.

It's no issue at the moment because I'm using my F/TR rifle as a light gun, but when I build a rig specifically for the discipline, I wonder how I should go about it.

How do/did you guys learn?

John

 

[J. Pendergraft]

Joel's Heavy gun is really neat, period. A couple of questions....

Does he have a jack or something that allows him to raise the front rest WITH the rifle in place?

Does he have an "umbilical cord" or something that makes the front bag(s) simply "one" bag or does he have two seperate bags?

These are a couple of things that have caused me problems when I tried to build and use something similar to Joel's.

thanks,

Jay

The front rest is comprised of (2) independent 3" wide bags. The hand wheels each have thrust bearings so height adjustment with the gun in place is quite easy. The 2 sides are connnected so both sides need to be adjusted concurrently to keep from binding the mechanism. The gun weighs 75 lbs and tracks very well. I have fired 10 record rounds several times without adjustment. On the average I adjust once in a ten shot string.