Remington, RWS & Norma brass

[bjld]

Hi all

Lapua brass is good, sure. But sometimes what I read almost seems possessed with the fervour of religion! ;-) In contrast Norma brass seems to get universally derided for being soft. I'm sure many people buy Lapua, but just how many have bought Norma? And for more than one cartridge?

I've been shooting a 6mm Ackley Improved in two different rifles for a couple of years now and I've attached a photo I took of brass formed from plain Jane Remington brass, from RWS 6.5x57 Mauser brass and from Norma 7x57 Mauser brass. The Norma brass was easy to form with a pass through a 257 Roberts FL die before a 6mm Remington FL die. The RWS brass was a little trickier because it's based on 8x57 Mauser brass, but I bought it because it was almost half the price of RWS 7x57 Mauser brass. 6.5x57 is not a popular cartridge in Australia.

All three makes of brass have stood up to repeated firing quite well. I don't load them to their limit because the overbore case capacity provides plenty of velocity and the one sure thing that promotes case longevity is keeping the peak pressure down. The Remington cases have proven to be the easiest cases to extract, resize and reload. Why? I'm not sure if you can see it in the photo but the case head is darker on the RWS and Norma brass. It's just a tiny amount smaller than the Remington brass and not quite as good a match for the chamber. It shoots well enough, but it just gets harder to chamber with fewer reloads.

Is the Remington brass better? Nope. Its necks split sooner than the RWS and Norma brass. In this respect the Norma brass comes out first, perhaps because the shoulder of the short necked RWS 6.5x57 cases were formed into the 6 AI necks and this brass is harder? I'm not sure. I suspect all three cases would be improved with regular annealling, but that's a little more work than I want to do.

So what's my point? Chamber to case fit is paramount to case life. Sometimes Remchester brass may offer the best compromise with reamer and die affordability/availability. Excessive chamber pressure will cause excessive case head expansion every time. Even with perfect brass-chamber matching the case head is not completely supported by the barrel. I've had great success with Norma brass in 22-250 AI and 300 RSAUM and resizing the 300 RSAUM to 7mm is popular. I think Norma deserves a better reputation than it's got.

Regards
Ben

 

[bjld]

And I think you might just be able to see it in my photo. The RWS brass has a thicker rim that makes it a PIA to fit in a regular shell holder. I use one for a 6.5x55. Not perfect, but...

 

[Charles E]

Worse, from my perspective, is that with the RWS 7x57 brass, the extractor groove is very short. A BAT action's extractor won't fit into it. I have a Rem 700 with a Savage bolthead on the Rem bolt that will, but what a pain. For me, if I ever get back to the 6 Ackley, a new extractor for the BAT is the best solution.

A shooting buddy made his cases from .257 Roberts +P brass. That let him use Winchester cases, pretty tough stuff. He liked it, but I don't know if Winchester brass is available in Australia. Personally, I never tried it, using mainly the Norma 7x57. Load was *about* 47 grains of H-4831 with 106 grain bullets you can't get there. Barrel life not too great, but boy, would the several 6 Ackley's I know of shoot.

As a general rule of thumb, I've found RWS brass the "toughest."

Edit:

Don't know about general popularity in Oz, but Alan Peake use to shoot a 6.5x57, I think an improved version. When he came to the States, he shot my 6.5/06 AI in Light Gun at the Hawk's Ridge N.C 1,000 State Championships, & professed he liked it better (well, he was a polite man). He shot my .30 SHV in HG, this a .404 Jeffrey shortened up to 2.5 inches. I got a nice email from him after they returned, asking for the details of the .30 SHV; apparently the groups he shot with it were the smallest he'd ever had.

In the early days of 1,000 yard benchrest, Jim Borden was a 6 Ackley fan. Somehow he'd gotten Lapua cases. I think 7x57. Or maybe he made them from an '06 case, but Jim has lot of contacts & getting brass from Europe wouldn't have been too hard for him back in the early-mid 1990s. Bruce Thom (B.A.T.) was another 6 Ackley aficionado.

 

[Frank B]

I only had one experience with Norma PPC brass and it wasn't good. When we built my BR rifle in 03 I opted for Lapua. I ran the first 200 cases over 20 firings without splitting one neck. I am up to 10 on the latest barrel and still haven't lost one. It doesn't get any better. Later! Frank

 

[zeke mccune]

Gooday Mate: How is that spelled?

The subject of Norma brass being "soft" has been discussed since circa 1961. There was quite a bit of talk about it in Precesion Shooting then. Yes,it will not take the high pressures as other brass but according to Norma, it is designed to show high pressure signs before a person can overload a shell. This is supposed to be a saftey factor!

Feel free to continue to use Norma brass as it is fine brass!

Stay well,


Zeke