Rem 700, base holes off

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PEI Rob

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A bud has a alignment problem on his F-class rig, scope points way right and barrel looks to be straight with action, its Nightforce has only 2 min of windage remaining. The barrel was installed by the maker and the action trued. Lug is now .183" so I assumed he ground it flat. The rig shoots very well. Of course I suggested he contact the smith/barrel maker, quite certain he is very capable.

What do you smiths usually do in this case? Retap to 8-40? To be honest, the real reason I ask is because I'd like to know how its done, might do one of my factory actions just because.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Is the scope base actually crooked with the action or is the barrel bore off? Some smiths now are just letting the muzzle flop around in an attempt to get the first 2 inches of bore straight.

One option I would pursue if the barrel is off, instead of re tapping the action, I would re drill the scope base or buy a scope base blank and drill it to correct the problem. Then I would go back to the normal setup once that barrel is shot out.
 
fixed from different angle

i had a rifle receiver on a springfield that the smith aligned his drill press just left of center. i used a weaver style mount and used millett scope rings as they have set screw adjustments on both sides. with this setup i was able to adjust the scope directly over the bore, which was the most cost effective fix i could imagine. jerry had an excellent idea to purchase gumsmith bases and make the holes correspond with the offset holes and the mount would be in alignment with the bore. however that fix could be complicated for the home fixer upper. Greg Moyer
 
This scope alignment issue is another reason to index the barrel with the high side at 12 o'clock if you are using range rods for barrel set-up. It adds another step to the process, but can prevent issues such as this from arising. Indexing to 12 o'clock also helps to prevent running out of up adjustment on your scope.
 
I would just add that there is quite a bit of movement available in the holes in the base/bases ... often you can force the base/bases in the direction you want and hold it/them there as you tighten the screws.

Relocating the holes and tapping to 8 x 40 would be a last resort for me...
 
The suggested fixes are all good ideas. But trying Burris Signature rings with the nylon inserts is a no-machining quick fix. For some reason, we have had a number of Burris scopes that were about out of windage when sighted in on 700s, much more often than found on Leupys, that were brought into center with Signature rings.
 
The 20 moa base and scope are Nightforce and the rings are TPS. The rig is still a complete rifle, I looked at it last night with only the stock off. He had a different base last year and had to use a fixed 10X 3200 to get 100 moa windage, he saved the pennies up and got the 8-32 NXS this winter, 45moa windage btw. I realize a visual is a poor/deceiving way to check something but you can easily see the scope pointing off while the action looks straight to the barrel. The main reason I point to the holes is the amount of error and the confidence in the smith's ability to true and chamber.

Since this isn't mine and I suggested he get his smith to look at it, lets just go ahead and pretend its the hole alignment that is the problem. How do you redrill and tap the holes straight?

Cheers,
Rob
 
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PEI Rob said:
Since this isn't mine and I suggested he get his smith to look at it, lets just go ahead and pretend its the hole alignment that is the problem. How do you redrill and tap the holes straight?

Cheers,
Rob
Click to expand...

I would put the receiver in a mill vise, locate the existing holes as good as I could and dr and tap them to 8-40 or 10-32 if needed for cleanup, in the correct location, of course. You don't use a drill for the new holes, more likely a small endmill, first, then go to the tap drill and countersink. Tapping in the mill while on location makes it an easy job.
Drill and counterbore the base(s) for the new screws and assemble. MSC has 10-32 Torx SHCS, Brownells has 8-40 screws.
 
Determine what holes are off first...

Use just the front holes and see if the rings line up with the barrel... I have a 3 foot piece of aluminum tubing I place in the rings and I can see at the muzzle how close it is to being centered... if things line up close with just the front screws, then you just have a rear screw hole that needs re -doing...
 
In the past, some gunsmiths have offered the service of mounting aluminum blocks to the action (properly radiused and drilled) and then putting the action in the mill vise and finishing the top of the blocks into Weaver base configuration. That way, the bases are in line with each other and the action. Can anyone remember who does this work?
 
Determine how much the holes are off (angular) by putting the barreled action in a mill, clamping on the action in a trued vice, v-blocks etc.

Run the dial indicator along the edge of action, edge of barrel, and edge of scope base, and see where the discrepancy is.

If it the scope base was off, I'd still put another base on and check it before IU started milling/tapping new holes.

If I was convinced it were the holes, I'd probably make a new base, with holes off the other way.

Once you ran the dial along the base, you could true up your mill vise to the base, and it would be off the correct angle, and put an undrilled base, or make a base, depending on type.

Just my way of thinking, I would hate to try to move action holes, oversize them, and think I can get it right. If you mess up a base, who cares.

Another real easy way, is to use a redfield base and the back adjustment will take care of it anyway.
 
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Riflemeister said:
This scope alignment issue is another reason to index the barrel with the high side at 12 o'clock if you are using range rods for barrel set-up. It adds another step to the process, but can prevent issues such as this from arising. Indexing to 12 o'clock also helps to prevent running out of up adjustment on your scope.
Click to expand...

I still find it quite illogical to fit (chamber, thread and crown) a barrel to where the muzzle does not point exactly along the same axis as the action and bolt bodies. Just doesn't make sense from an engineering and physical dynamics standpoint.

True an action then screw a crooked barrel on??? Why bother with action trueness in the first place??

Kind of like building a bridge across a river at an odd angle then moving the road to the ends of the mis-constructed bridge.
 
If you ran a screw in the forward & rearmost screw holes & put a straightedge across them, you'd soon find out how the holes are aligned. I haven't owned a problem Remmy, but a Winchester 70 sporter I owned had to be fitted with a one piece base so the scope would point north, but only after I opened one of the screw holes with a swiss file.
 
Here's something I find wrong with every 700 I put scope bases on. Actually two things. I've found as much as .020" variation in height between the front receiver ring and the rear bridge from action to action. The whole action is polished by hand so you know what that means. The rear bridge 19 out of 20 times will slope to the rear and to the right. Think what that does to the alignment of the center line of the scope in the rear ring. Very seldom do screw holes have anything to with it. The only way to check for this is a set of high quality bases, two machinist squares and a 1/2" thick parallel for the mill. What you do to correct this I leave up to you.

Dave
 
Jerry seems skeptical that it could be the receiver that is off and wants to blame the Gordy Gritters method of barreling for this problem. Maybe I'm putting words in his mouth but that is certainly what is implied.

I have seen several 700 receivers that have had the holes drilled not in alignment and have seen two in which the holes were not even tapped. It could very well be a combination of an overly polished rear bridge and misaligned holes. The cheapest fix is Burris Signature rings however, this is certainly somewhat of a band-aid.
 
The description Dave has given is exactly why we do not make rails for
remington's, or Winchesters either!! Hole layout leaves room for a hope and a prayer also.

I was wondering the other day if Remington would be interested in selling a few hundred actions without the rear bridge dropped and butchered? And no screw holes!!!

Alan
 
Alan

That is why my action is one diameter, front to rear.

Alan give me a call sometime. 704-864-7525 we need to talk.

Very seldom is any problem created by a single issue. Particularly when we work with factory products. They have their tolerences and we have ours. Sometimes correcting theirs to meet ours doesn't resolve the problem. So improvise and adapt or go custom.

Dave
 
I was having so much trouble getting the scope base holes right on the mausers I was doing, and I tried everything, that I went to leupold one piece bases only. I do the best I can with the holes, then align the rings to the barrel axis with the adjustments provided. End of problem.
 
dennisinaz said:
Jerry seems skeptical that it could be the receiver that is off and wants to blame the Gordy Gritters method of barreling for this problem. Maybe I'm putting words in his mouth but that is certainly what is implied.

.
Click to expand...
You didn't put words in my mouth, I do my own talking thank you. Like I said, if the action points one way and the muzzle another, that is not good.

The method of letting the muzzle point wherever came with the method of using "range rods" (Whatever that is). This happened way before Mr Gritters ever starred in the video.

In the old method where a steadyrest was used only the ends of the barrel were aligned. This was generally using a piloted center reamer. In this method the curvature of the barrel was not even considered in most situations. This is why I think is one reason we have more good shooting barrels per hundred now than was in the steadyrest days.
 
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