Reloading dies....which to buy

J

jaybic

Guest
Hello to you all,

I am new here and have been reading this site for a while but this would be my first post so here goes.

I am having my Rem 700 hb sendero rebarreled in .308Win with a 26in fluted Kreiger and having it all trued/printed and lapped....kinda "the works" as I understand it. I have already had the trigger done and it sits in an H.S. Precision aluminum block bedded stock and wears a 6.18 VX II. It is going to be my new North Dakota Long Range Coyote Swatter or NDLRCS if you prefer.:D

All goofing off aside, I am not a comp shooter but I am looking to upgrade my "hunting level" reloading to a level that will maximize my new rifles accuracy potential. I reload for a pair of .223(encore and Match-grade DPMS) and an Abolt micro in .22-250 and well as a Kimber Mauser in .243 but my focus is on the new "custom rifle(can I call it that?).

What kind/brand/features of dies would a guy pick up for a rifle such as describe above?

I just got an RCBS case master gauge tool(does this help?) and I am trying to learn more about the next level of precision and I welcome any and all tips, tricks, advise...ect...ect.

I am sure there is a ton to learn here at Benchrest Central and I really do appreciate your time. I know this is broad and sorry for the long post.

Thanks and have a great day!

Jaybic
 
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Now days we are lucky in that most any vendor you choose will provide you with high quality dies. I have used Redding, Hornady, RCBS, Dillon and Lee. I rank quality in that order from highest to lowest. Don't let that fool you....Lee dies are still excellent; I would not hesitate to use any of the dies for making quality ammunition.

There are kits available to get you going ranging from expensive to budget. This kit http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1208977378.3648=/html/catalog/anivers.html will get you going for a minimum $$ outlay.

A case gauge is needed as well as a trimming die or case trimmer.
 
Thanks for the tip on the dies!

I dont need the kit as I already have a full RCBS setup and also a Dillon RL 450(I picked it up at a garage sale for 35.00 with everything but dies included and have yet to use it) and I have most of the basic reloading tools and supplies. Only dies I have ever used are RCBS dies for about 30.00 per set.

Are the fancy micrometer dies sets by Redding for 200.00+ dollars worth it or would I get the same level of accuracy, all else being equal with a good set of RCBS comp ar gold medal match dies or the Forster benchrest dies?

I have no idea what kind of accuracy I can expect from the rifle I am getting back but I kinda thought, match-grade barrel and chamber and fully tuned rifle deserves match grade dies and loads but I might be all messed up too.

Thanks again for your input.

Jaybic
 
If you can spring for a Kreiger barrel and a major build up. You can afford a Neil Jones adjustable full length die. Custom made from your fired cases $175. Unless it's for shooting at tin cans, I'm done with the one die fits all rifles stuff, no matter who makes 'em.
The Redding micrometer seating dies are very nice.
 
I agree with karts52. I just started using the Redding .223 Competition dies...they are really sweet to use.

As far as accuracy on the calipers is concerned I believe most are .001" so that shouldm't be an issue...the extra $$ i believe is in the consrtuction and smoothness is the slide. I have been using a Craftsman for the last 25 years and it still looks and feels new. I believe back then they were made by Starrett...not cheap but well worth the $$...as to whether I would spend $200 for one...I doubt it...for less than $140 you can get a nice one...even digital
 
oops...I saw micrometer dies and thought micrometer caliper. I have a set of the Redding dies. I just started using them and love them. Go for it!
 
Assuming the chamber is not a tight neck and you are not neck turning the brass I reckon a Lee Collet neck die (learn to set it up right) with a Redding body die for when the cases get a bit snug to chamber along with a Forster Ultra seater, like a Redding comp but much better value for money.

This set up will load ammo as straight or better than pretty much any other, at least that has been my experience.

Bryce
 
Forester/Bonanza........

dies are really great dies for a guy that does not turn necks. Their Benchrest seater is great and the neck sizer from this company can be used to "Bump" shoulders unlike RCBS and Redding.

I hope that you had the stock bedded.

Since you mentioned coyotes, I hunted with a rig very similar to yours in the 80's. I shot a load of 51.5g of 748 with a 125g Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3200 fps. This load dumped coyotes hard at 300 yards+. I would start off at 49.0g and work your way up to 52.0g of 748 stopping at pressure signs.

I have shot this load in many 308's, and it is amazing how accurate it is. The heavier bullets have a really lousy trajectory leading to "unziping" coyotes. Find a good ballistic's program and run the numbers and study carefully.

We had another load of Sierra 110's doing 3600 that were very accurate, but I can't remember the load because the 125's at 3200 performed so much better past 300 yards.

Good luck!
 
Hello fellas,

Wow, a ton of ideas here. Thanks very much! It kinda seems that Redding gets the nod or at least seems to be most popular. I had a 1000yd bench rest shooter also mention the Forester Bonanza dies to me but I cant seem to locate anything called Bonanza dies on the Forester website or Midway/Midsouth or any of those type places.


I will also apologize for asking any seemingly stupid questions but do have to say I am a bit in the dark here on a couple things. I have been "hunting grade" reloading seriously for about 8 years but have not yet graduated to turning necks(inside or outside) and I am not sure what a tight neck is.

Keith, I have not had the stock bedded as I guess I understood(maybe incorrectly) that the HS Precision aluminum block is quite good. Do any of you have any experience with this type of aluminum block setup, good or bad or should I just see if it shoots and decide to rebed from there?

I am hoping to shoot 110gr Vmax as fast and flat as I can get them. Oh yeah, twist is 1:10 on the new barrel. I have 100 brand new Hornady cases ready to go(I think) but I am thinking of trying some other types of brass as well. Maybe Nosler or Lapua and I have just bought about every kind of primer on the market but have had my best luck with CCI BR primers.

I am kinda looking for a load that I can stretch out to the 5-600 yard range as my 22.250 will do excellent work out to 300.

Any ideas are welcome and thanks again for all your advise and patients to a rookie "Accuracy nut"

Jaybic
 
Jaybic,

You DO NOT want to overlook cartridge concentricity. If you are seeking 1/4" accuracy and better, you will need to address the matter. Being you bought an RCBS Casemaster, I will assume that you are going to concern yourself with case concentricity and the bullet run-out of the finished cartridge.

In that instance, you can really appreciate the Wilson in-line bullet seaters. The design of the die is simple but is such that the neck and the bullet are fully enclosed by the walls of the die and the bullet has nowhere to go but straight down into the case neck. It doesn't get any truer then that, and we're talking only about a $38-$40 die. The only set back in initial expense will be you need to spend $100 or so on a press available from Sinclair or K&M. I saved some money and made my own press from out of an old Sears drill holder/press.

I've never had the fancier design 7/8" "competition" screw in seaters by Redding to compare, or some of the other manufacturers own "improved" version of a 7/8" seater die. Maybe these fancier screw-in dies do work great. But, too many guys on these boards were saying that they use their 7/8" screw-in dies for every other feature of reloading EXCEPT SEATING. They said for seating they relied on the Wilson die. Well, I took the hint. Rather then to spend more money experimenting to see if specially designed (and more expensive) screw-in seater dies worked, I jumped right into the Wilson seater die and press and have never looked back. I can tell you that I definitely saw a marked improvement in minimizing bullet run-out.......and my 5 shot groups shrank.
 
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Bonanza is I think an old brand name for Forster's products. They're the same.

I've got Redding, RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, and Lee dies and the only problems I've had with any of them is that the movable insert in the Hornady's sticks down pretty far which makes seating a bullet in a case the length of an '06 a pain in the tail in my Rockchucker. I've also had problems with Lee's sizing dies keeping the decapping rod to keep from backing out if the primer's tight.

The micrometer top seaters are very nice when it comes to adjusting seating depths.
 
Lee Collet Die

Newbie reloader here. I have been using the Lee Collet Die for my .308 and like the neck die a lot. The dead length bullet seater (whatever that is) seems kind of cheesy to me so I just ordered a Forster Ultra micrometer seating die this AM.

I told my wife that since I quit shooting skeet tornaments this target rifle stuff would be a lot cheaper. Now I want a 6BR :eek: LOL!
 
Talon1959 said:
Newbie reloader here. I have been using the Lee Collet Die for my .308 and like the neck die a lot. The dead length bullet seater (whatever that is) seems kind of cheesy to me so I just ordered a Forster Ultra micrometer seating die this AM.

I told my wife that since I quit shooting skeet tornaments this target rifle stuff would be a lot cheaper. Now I want a 6BR :eek: LOL!
Click to expand...

Let's just hope she doesn't figger it out.... :eek::eek::D
 
Talon,
You made a very wise choice with the Ultra Micrometer seater. It is the best seater that I have used.

Jaybic,
I would not have chosen the 10 twist for the .308 but each to his own. 12 twist would likely have been better especially with the lighter bullets.

If the rifle was a Sendero (long action) it would be hard to beat the 25-06 for a flat shooting coyote/deer rifle. A 100gr. Ballistic Tip at 3400 fps is deadly on both....even pretty large deer.
 
Well, after all the tips and suggestions, I ordered a set of the Forster Benchrest dies with the micrometer bullet seater so I think I am all set with bullets(110Vmax and 168/175 SMKs) and brass all set to go. Now If my dang rifle would just show up!

CWPINST,

The rifle is a short action and was originally a 22-250. If I could have done the 25.06 thing with it I would have though.

The reason that I went with 1:10 over 1:12 is that my smith said that if what I was really trying to build was a LONG range coyote rifle that the heavy bullets(168/175smks) will work better out of the 1:10 as they hold velocity and energy better that the light bullets and the lighter bullets should still shoot fairly well if I want to take it to a calling stand where the shots are likely to be much closer(75-300yds). I kinda just told what I wanted the rifle for and had him tell me what parts and bells and whistles to put on it. He is correct right? Long range=heavy bullet?

I hunt probably 20-30 days per year in North Dakota and occasinally see a coyote bedded up on top of a hill or haybale 500-800 yards or more away and its so flat and or open, that you cant get close so I decided that since my 22-250 barrel was getting shot out anyway that I would build a rifle to "fix" those that thought they were out of 22-250 range and also for windy coyote calling days.

I think I have made a good choice but only time will tell I guess.

Thanks again fellas,

Jaybic
 
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.308 dies

Just my two cents; here's what I did with excellent results.

Buy a Redding small base body die and sent it to Jim Carstensen (JLC Precision) with two fired cases. For a very reasonable fee, Jim will convert that die to take a neck sizing bushing and you will now have a shoulder bump/neck bushing die that will re-size your brass minimally and accurately.
Mr. Carstensen's work is second to none with reasonable turn around time.

Buy yourself a Wilson seater die and an arbor press. That is all you will need to turn out match grade quality ammo at an affordable price. You can spend much more money but you don't need to. Trust me, I've spent alot of money that I didn't need to in the past.
Chino69
 
Get yourself a copy of Glen Zediker's book "Handloading for Competition." It covers all aspects of handloading for accuracy and covers in detail almost everything mentioned in this thread. He has his opinions and does recommend techniques and tools.
 
I concur with Rangerat on Zediker's book. There are a lot of great details there. He uses colloquial language so sometimes you have to read something twice.
 
fwiw & imho,
I'm not a benchrester, however, I own a dozen or so full custom rifles and have been loading for 15 years. The last five or six I MAY have progressed from reloader to handloader....

At anyrate I will only caution you of one thing. You can't seat a bullet straight in a crooked neck. I run Forster Ultra(Micrometer) and Redding Competition Sliding Chamber Seating Dies. Neither die will produce concentricity from a bad sizing die/operation. While I love the Forster Ultra Seaters I do sincerely HATE their sizing dies. I spent too much time trying not to pull necks out of alignment with their high positioned expander ball. With a Redding Standard Die you can remove the stem and expander ball altogether and seperate your operations. I throw all expander balls away and replace them with Redding Carbide Expander Balls. Clean necks combined with some lube and slick carbide expander ball judiciously pushed in and pulled out produce very low TIR numbers. As a matter of fact they typically beat my S-Type dies with the carbide expander ball attached...

At any rate the Forster BR or Ultra Seater does the same job as the Redding Comp Seater, however, be weary of their sizers. Can't seat a bullet straight in a crooked neck...imho.

Regards, Matt.
 
Personally, I don't think there's any real secrets to precision reloading beyond attention to details and remembering that you can't buy you way into the winners circle.

A lot of the stuff people do as far as weighing and measuring and such is "because they can". It's like chicken soup. I've never uniformed a primer pocket nor pursued those ubiquitous little trapdoors that folks say are lurking inside new brass. I proved to myself a long time ago that weighing cases is a job for folks that have too much time on their hands. Case discrepecies can be resolved with one trip to the range. Of course, you need to do many of these things just to prove to yourself that they are worthless.

Often folks will tell you that XXX is the best! What they are really saying is XXX is the most expensive. They haven't the slightest idea if it's the best. When you see the ad that sez Joe Smith used XXX product to win the Super Shoot, remember that the last place loser probably did also. :rolleyes: Good careful reloading, careful attention to bench technique --many, many folks that complain that their rifles won't shoot under an inch aren't inch shooters themselves-- and practice, practice, practice will take you where you want to go. :)
 
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