Redding Bump Die?

B

Brian Adams

Guest
I am looking for a shoulder-only bump die, thought Redding made them, but all I find are "body" dies which full-length resize the body.

I prefer not to resize the base, only bump the shoulder back a tad. Who makes what I want? (It's for 6mm Rem.)

Brian
 
Just thinking out loud, what happens to the body if you bump the shoulder back with the body of the case not supported?
 
What's wrong with resizing the entire case when pushing the shoulder back? F/L sizing brings the entire case back to the cartridge designer's original dimensions.

If I want to just bump the shoulder back [without messing with the neck] which I rarely do, I use my F/L bushing die without the bushing. :)
 
Forster makes bushing dies that bump the shoulder and size the neck, without sizing the diameter of the body. I do not recommend this approach, and believe that after a while you will end up with ill fitting brass, but if you are set on this path, they make the die.
 
The reason you don't find 'bump dies' listed anywhere is because they don't work. They're useless and dangerous, the term was coined by those folks who attempted for years to convince us they could make a die using the chambering reamer. Thankfully the term is disappearing.

A chambering reamer just makes another chamber, in the die blank.

period.

I have several of them, some of them made by big name makers.

They're useless.

Do what you want but be careful, what you're really looking for is a hardened, fitted FL die. It's expensive, it's a pita to have made, but it's the real answer to a complex problem. A problem which a 'bump die' WILL NOT CURE.... Take it from someone who actually owns them, has paid to have them built, hundreds of dollars spent on useless paperweights. Luckily the makers who pushed them on us generally didn't harden them so they can be recut sometimes..... I've 4 in my pile waiting for me to experiment with a chamber that makes them re-cuttable. There is also one maker out there who uses your reamer to make dies from 12L14 "Leadloy" which he calls "Bump Dies." These he cuts with your chambering reamer then quench-hardens claiming that this shrinks the die enough to be usable.

As a user I disagree.

hth
al
 
What's wrong with resizing the entire case when pushing the shoulder back? F/L sizing brings the entire case back to the cartridge designer's original dimensions.

If I want to just bump the shoulder back [without messing with the neck] which I rarely do, I use my F/L bushing die without the bushing. :)



I disagree with everything this post seems to be saying, EVERYTHING. I don't have enough time to list the ways.
 
Bump Dies

Harrels makes some excellent bump/full length dies.....also Forestor......I believe Redding too....
What is required is .... send them 3 fired cases...they will send you a custom honed die....and for what they charge...they are cheap....
bill larson
 
I never understood the point of a bump die. If your FL is matched to the chamber, the brass isn't worked much. My dad cut a bump die for his first 6 BR in 1987. It was the "thing to do" so he bit. Later he made a full-length sizer off the fired case. And guess what? Case life actually improved. By not sizing to the base, you eventually work-harden the brass. Sounds counter to reloading academia, but it's trune.

We make our own reamers and dies, and hone the FL like Harrell. In my opinion, there's no other way to reload for benchrest.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
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Forster makes bushing dies that bump the shoulder and size the neck, without sizing the diameter of the body. I do not recommend this approach, and believe that after a while you will end up with ill fitting brass, but if you are set on this path, they make the die.
.

I read these posts every night but don't shoot in any competitions so never have any input to share with you guys. Always interesting though. Obviously any dangerous reloading practice must be avoided. I use Forster bump dies for my varmint 22-250 factory Remington VSSF II. Here is my thinking: the chamber is a completely factory Remington action in 22-250. I use nosler and Remington brass. No matter what, the cartridges will always fit loose just by nature of this factory setup. But, if I use a bump die, I push the shoulder back .0005" (that's right, and it's hard to measure), I resize the neck with the proper Forster bushing, and over time I picture this case to chamber fit getting tighter so as to mimic the principal of tight fitting cartridges in benchrest chambers. No, I don't consider this a benchrest quality firearm by doing this, but it seems in my case it would be an advantage over full length resizing. But if it's UNSAFE I definintly won't use them anymore. Forster by the way is a excellent company. So am I safe or not?
 
Not unsafe, but if you can get away with very many firings on a case without a tight bolt on extraction, you are by definition shooting loads of only moderate pressure. The trick is to have a FL die that matches your chamber, or to cut your chamber with a reamer that matches your die. Benchrest shooters gemerally use custom FL dies such that case bodies are only slightly sized along the length of their bodies. They specifically do not want to have tight bolts because of the need to shoot quickly, when the conditions allow it, and to avoid having the rifle rock in its bags while doing so, like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjs96PsbXI
He is not shooting light loads. Notice how smoothly the bolt operates, and how the rifle is not disturbed in the bags as he opens and closes it. This is benchrest at its best.
 
Not unsafe, but if you can get away with very many firings on a case without a tight bolt on extraction, you are by definition shooting loads of only moderate pressure. The trick is to have a FL die that matches your chamber, or to cut your chamber with a reamer that matches your die. Benchrest shooters gemerally use custom FL dies such that case bodies are only slightly sized along the length of their bodies. They specifically do not want to have tight bolts because of the need to shoot quickly, when the conditions allow it, and to avoid having the rifle rock in its bags while doing so, like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjs96PsbXI
He is not shooting light loads. Notice how smoothly the bolt operates, and how the rifle is not disturbed in the bags as he opens and closes it. This is benchrest at its best.

Absolutely Fabulous!!!
 
Bump dies

Not unsafe, but if you can get away with very many firings on a case without a tight bolt on extraction, you are by definition shooting loads of only moderate pressure. The trick is to have a FL die that matches your chamber, or to cut your chamber with a reamer that matches your die. Benchrest shooters gemerally use custom FL dies such that case bodies are only slightly sized along the length of their bodies. They specifically do not want to have tight bolts because of the need to shoot quickly, when the conditions allow it, and to avoid having the rifle rock in its bags while doing so, like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bjs96PsbXI
He is not shooting light loads. Notice how smoothly the bolt operates, and how the rifle is not disturbed in the bags as he opens and closes it. This is benchrest at its best.

So shoulder "bump dies" have no place in Benchrest shooting rifles. But would you say bump dies are better than full length sizing dies in a factory style rifle as long as the cartridge continues to chamber and extract well? Better meaning to create a tighter cartridge to chamber fit possibly leading to the bullet being more aligned with the bore when chambered?
 
I'm not Boyd and have no dawg in this fight but I'll go on record as alinwa saying "there's no difference between the requirements of factory VS Bench Rest" when it comes to making and maintaining topnotch cases.

Brass life and maintenance is what it is regardless of pedigree
 
If something gives you satisfactory results, and does not harm the rifle, then I suggest that you keep doing it. On the other hand, if you would like to see different results, you will probably need to change something. Over the years, I have found it pretty common that shooters say that they want to have better results, but when you give them a rundown on what would be required, they reject anything that their buddies are not doing, or they have not read in an article in a newsstand magazine. This would include simple things like putting out sticks with surveyors' tape tied to their tops to be able to see what the wind is doing.

Custom dies can be made for virtually any chamber including a factory one, but using them may not improve results that come from a bad barrel, nonexistent bedding job, crooked action, bad scope, or excessively heavy trigger. The trick is to have some idea as to where to start, or even if starting is called for.

I once had a factory .220 Swift that, with only a trigger adjustment, would put five premium factory rounds into a half inch or less, and handloads into about 3/8. Since that was plenty good for what I was using it for, I left it alone, and enjoyed it as it came.

I have a .243 sporter in the safe that I picked up just in case I get a chance to go deer hunting, taking shots at distances that are realistic. The first load that I put together with out prior testing grouped 3/4". I put it away because it will do everything that I bought it for as it came, no bedding and only a little trigger work.

On the other hand, my rifles that only shoot paper are another story entirely. There is no end to the experimentation, and I enjoy every bit of it.
 
I hear ya Boyd. We always go to great lengths to build our rifles right. Quality barrels, trued actions, proper bedding, good glass, tight chambers, etc, etc. Then again, you get those outliers that shouldn't shoot well but do. I'll never forget a 33 Winchester my dad built on a Siamese Mauser action in the 80's. All he wanted was beater deer rig.....and he did it on the cheap. He cleaned the action up, screwed in a 338-caliber Shaw tube, and stuck a Tasco 3 x 9 on top. Didn't even bed the damn thing, just free floated the barrel. We were pretty surprised when it shot 3/4" groups with Sierras. Two years ago we dragged it out to see it could still hold that level of performance. Two quick foulers and he stuck 5 in just under an inch. I can't explain the how and why, but who cares.....the gun shoots so we're leaving it alone.

Of course, we have guns where we were meticulous and they didn't live up to expectations.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
I'm behind the door...

Are Y'all saying that shoulder bumping is dangerous for a PPC? Further, will shoulder bumping not shoot acceptable aggregates?
 
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that not sizing the diameter of the body for a number of shots without cases becoming inconveniently tight is tied to the pressure of the loads, and that it has become the common practice in short range benchrest to FL size. I have seen some really accurate shooting done with loads that were mild, but that choice does not seem to be a common one these days, but rather more middle and up. It seems to me that questioners on this subject lack experience with a FL die that is very closely matched to the chamber that it is used with, and for that reason, they are looking for ways to avoid FL sizing. I am just trying to convey that with a fitted die, the situation is much different.
 
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