reamers (or black magic?)

I've cut several chambers, both center fire and rimfire. The burr left by the cutter or reamer that cuts the rifling in the throat will best be removed by lapping in the axial direction. A "hob" or tool used to cut or burnish in the same direction as the chambering reamer might have some effect but probably would not do as good a job as the lap. If all the reaming done in the chamber is done with sharp cutters and with very light cuts then minimum burrs will be left. In other words it's more important in what you do to prevent burr formation than what you do to remove the burrs.
 
Now that my buddy Cec has cleared up the misinformation it's probably of no use for me to try and add much of anything else. I would point out that our well documented,midwest rifle guru has told you what it is, what it was made from. From there the basic principles are not too much of a leap.
 
Tim,
You tried, and gave a good explanation. I'm trying to figure out how anyone would lap a chamber and leade area when the chamber changes dimension pretty quick at the leade area, or at least mine do. Maybe they'll explain it further.
 
The burrs are formed inside of the groove diameter of the barrel. The lap will move over the burrs since it stays inside of the groove diameter.
 
OK that's understandable. Thanks. Every reamer I've seen leaves radial striations on the coned leade area and marks like file teeth on the ends of the lands. How do you get rid of those? That's what catches fowling and lead and screws up shots, or it seems to be. None of the reamer makers make a reamer with an edge finish smooth enough to prevent those marks, or do they? If they do I haven't seen one yet. Thanks.
 
Need re grinding

Kent
I did some test chambers with one of my reamers, and I think I need to send it back and have it reground. Those leades would take a case and a half of junk bullets to get it smooth enough to stabilize a round.
 
Kent Owens said:
Tim,
You tried, and gave a good explanation. I'm trying to figure out how anyone would lap a chamber and leade area when the chamber changes dimension pretty quick at the leade area, or at least mine do. Maybe they'll explain it further.
Click to expand...

That much I can tell you, they can't. I've been told by more than one that the tapered burnisher will put a final finnish on the leade. I'm guessing it may also even up the various lands the reamer cuts and with the final polish removes any burr....except maybe a real fine edge on the corner of the land which is easier to get off. As you well know, a burr of any significance is not going to shoot off.
 
Tim,
I think you got it right and gave a good explanation. Ironing the marks out or burnishing, hobbing, whatever, is the way to go.

Fred,
Unfortuantely the finish on new reamers is not good enough to prevent the radial marks in the leade. If they were polished to a higher finish they'd leave less marks to be ironed, or burnished out. A bore scope tell the tale.
Good luck on getting those reamers reground. You might ask if they could put put a higher polish finish on 'em. It's worth a shot.
 
You can get the pellets and adapters from Brownell's. They're called VFG pellets, the adapters have a course thread on the end, kinda like an acme thread and the pellets twist on. Thanks, Douglas
 
No offense to anyone that has posted on this thread, but I was hoping that one or two of the big name gunsmiths would offer up just a little bit of information. I realize now that this is more about black magic than ever.

Bill Calfee, I certainly was hoping to hear what you might add to the conversation. I am sorry that you have not felt interested in doing so.

Still, there is a little good info here but not a lot if one was hoping to build a rifle to be competitive.

Brent
 
Finishing the leade and chamber is, I believe, one of Bill's trade secrets. Pacific tool makes and sells a "hob" but no one knows for sure if it matches Bill's. The concern is whether the hob rolls over the edge of the land and thus causing more problems than it solves. I am experimenting with a spiral cut reamer that seems to leave the leade a little smoother but not perfectly smooth. We may be left with just shooting the things in the way it has always been done.
 
I did not want or intend to uncover anyone's trade secrets but some basic descriptions of the style of reamer, dimensions, and the process would be nice. I suspect Bill, in particular has published some of this in PS, but I did not see it back then. The rest of the world's gunsmiths seem to be particularly tongue tied. But I expected that. The .22 rf world seems to suffer from a lot more of this sort of thing than the bpcr/creedmoor world - unfortunately.

Brent
 
Brent,

I think Bill has described the material the hob needs to be made of and put a picture on this site. I don't remember if it was in the rimfire area or general discussion, but you might do a search. As far as it being a trade secret, Bill let me watch everything he did to build my rifle except the use of the hob to finish the chamber. So, I guess it is proprietary. I doubt that he will talk anymore about it on this forum.
 
BrentD said:
I did not want or intend to uncover anyone's trade secrets but some basic descriptions of the style of reamer, dimensions, and the process would be nice. I suspect Bill, in particular has published some of this in PS, but I did not see it back then. The rest of the world's gunsmiths seem to be particularly tongue tied. But I expected that. The .22 rf world seems to suffer from a lot more of this sort of thing than the bpcr/creedmoor world - unfortunately.

Brent
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BRENT THIS IS FROM THE DELETED STOPPED THREAD:

Kathy Kathy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 946
Off the subject, leade finishing hobs
Leade finishing hob:

MY friends, I thought I'd post this info here as opposed to having to type it several times for all the forums........

I've had several pieces of correspondence from folks who have obtained a leade finishing hob and are having trouble....

I developed my chamber finishing process a lot of years ago....got the idea from Ferris Pindell.....anyway, now some reamers grinders are producing leade finishing hobs.......none of them asked me anything about them???

Anyway, when I develpoed my hob I tried every kind of steel I could work with...couldn't work with carbide.....

NOTHING, let me repeat, NOTHING would work properly but a plain carbon tool steel containing the following:

Carbon.... 1.05%
Manganese .20%
Silicon .20%

My hobs are hardened "as quinched", not drawn......

They are micro polished, I mean micro polished...

Nothing I tried for a lubricant would work but EWS Lard Oil, straight up, nothing added, let me repeat, nothing added!

MY friends, if you are having problems with your hob, may I suggest you contact the maker of the product, and, see if you can obtain a detailed set of instructions on how to use "their" version of my hob.

Your friend,


Bill Calfee
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Old 10-24-2008, 03:20 PM
Kathy Kathy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 946
Been a long day
Been a long day:

My friends, just winding down the day and reflecting some thoughts:

The world is finding out about my leade finishing hob.........this is good....if we don't properly finish the leade of our accuracy rifles, we can't get best accuracy, at least till we shoot enough rounds through the barrel to season the chamber leade, (if we didn't hob the leade....)

By hobbing the leade, the rifle starts out with most of it's best accuracy...not too much seasoning is required....although some is still required.......which I tell all my customers about...

More and more folks will be using my hob........it would be kinda nice if the reamer makers would have at least asked permission, from me, or better yet, worked out some compensation, for me, for them using my invention....

For all you folks who are new to my hob......you won't be "new" long.....before long, no gunsmith will finish a chamber, centerfire, rimfire, or otherwise, without finishing the leade, with my hob................

Now, my friends, please do not correspond with me further about the use of my hob..........have your reamer grinder instruct you in it's use......

If the reamer grinders can take my hob from me, without my permission, by GOD, at least they can tell you how to use it properly....good GOD! Man!

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
The "seasoning" Calfee refers to is an abrasive or wearing action very similar to the abrasive or wearing action of a lap. This confirms my opinion that lapping is the best way to remove burrs at the leade. There is no question a hob or tool that leaves a fine finish on the front of the leade will improve the throat area but this is a different problem than the burrs. When all is said and done then producing a good throat in a barrel requires a finishing hob that leaves a very smooth finish (burnished?), a lapping operation, and finally a number of seasoning shots fired thru the throat.
 
Beau,
I remember your very interesting post and that there were parts that were "off limits" so to speak. I'm not trying to pry any of that loose as I appreciate its value to Bill. But I don't recall a lot (or anything) specific about that reamer and its design. Maybe those are off the table too, but I sure did appreciate what you posted.

jGEE that was much appreciated. I did not see those posts. Too bad they were deleted, but that is very interesting.

Brent
 
BrentD said:
Beau,
I remember your very interesting post and that there were parts that were "off limits" so to speak. I'm not trying to pry any of that loose as I appreciate its value to Bill. But I don't recall a lot (or anything) specific about that reamer and its design. Maybe those are off the table too, but I sure did appreciate what you posted.

jGEE that was much appreciated. I did not see those posts. Too bad they were deleted, but that is very interesting.

Brent
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Brent,

Those parts were off limits to me too and that was clear from the beginning. I respected that and I would respect that of any gunsmith or craftsman who feels that he/she has developed something that gives his/her product an advantage. The formula for Coke is still a secret.
 
Yeah, but Coca Cola is just a drug (and I'm an addict). Shooting is MUCH more important.... :)

Again, I'm not trying to steal secrets, but I am trying to get past the state of the art (this XYZ worked pretty well in my 10/22) to something a bit more advanced. Guys shooting my discipline regularlly drop 3-5k on a good quality rifle but we don't have the .22 specialists that lurk in the .22 benchrest world.

Brent
 
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george in KY said:
what about running the reamer in reverse to burnish the leade a little ?
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George, i'm no 'smith but that does seem like idea worth trying! I don't see how it could hurt the reamer -but i'm still a rookie.
joe :)
 
Use caution

I once reversed a reamer to take it out after I had gotten the required depth. I t caught a chip, and gouged the chamber. Had to cut off and redo.
 
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