reamers (or black magic?)

B

BrentD

Guest
The discussion recently about chambering philosophy has me (and several others) wondering what the benchrest crowd uses in the way of chamber reamers in the best custom rifles. Everyone I know says "Match Reamer" like the term actually means one and only one thing. But I know better than that.

Do you specify a particular reamer when building a bench rifle?

Is there a reamer maker or reaming method or whatever that might be particularly appropriate to .22 br that is, perhaps, not quite so relevant to other shooting venues.

I realize that some of this may be considered propriatary secrets of the trade and protected by black voodoo magic and what not, but a good discussion of reamer issues to consider would be interesting.

Is a JGS Match reamer anything special among match reamers?

Does it matter which ammo you expect to be shooting?

Anyway, I'd love to hear more about this from those that might be willing to speak....

Brent
 
Tis one of the black arts of riflesmithing. Most of them seem to be a variation of what would be called a Calfee Spec reamer. It could be a 1deg, 1 1/2deg, or 2 deg leade, with a few variations. It would be set to cut a chamber that, with ELEY, would engrave anywhere from all of the drive band to none of the drive band. My guess [only a guess] is that probably at least 1/2 the drive band will be engraved. Many, will finnish a chamber by polishing the leade with a "hob" or other impliment with the purpose being to remove any burr from the throat . I doubt if you get anybody to detail methodology. Many reamers require a variety of bushings depending on how tight the bore and what configuration the rifling. I'd suspect most reamers are made by Dave Kiff.
There are a mindnumbing number of variables and as many opinions as to how it's done.
It is also quite usefull to have a borescope, as chamber study is more of a journey instead of a destination and you will learn that if inability to cut a nice chamber was against the law, some guys deserve the death penalty, others produce a thing of beauty.:D
 
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Let me ask something, if you were to walk up to Dave Kiff and say "I want to purchase a Calfee reamer", what do you think he'd say? Thanks, Douglas
 
Many Duplicates

I see reamer specs today, that are very, very, very similar to what was used back in the 60's. Who's copying who?
 
Reamers from Dave Kiff

You can order Calfee reamers 1-4 from Dave, he has the specs in his chamber print book, as well as 20 others.
Great book!
Jeff
 
info please.... Brent really a great topic!!

<snip>, will finnish a chamber by polishing the leade with a "hob" or other impliment with the purpose being to remove any burr from the throat .</snip>

I really don't have a clue what a "hob" is. :confused: I'm guessing maybe a blunt nose shaft made in the shape of a 22 round... maybe spun inside the leade to help polish????

Anyone help a clueless person out, alms for the blind, lol??
thanks joe :)

(i sure hope Mr. Bill don't jump in and tell us how, it would just ruin the thread - wouldn't be nothin else to say, lol) :D
 
Esentially, yes. Probably less shaped like a .22 round and more like a tapered mandrel with the taper matching the angle of the throat. The greatest .22 gunsmith I ever knew told me that his was mild steel but that the secret was in the proper lube, something made, not bought, using a variety of ingredients.
 
Tim , that would make sense. When I worked in a machine shop, the lap was always softer than the material you were lapping and in this case the hob would be a lap.
 
tim said:
Esentially, yes. Probably less shaped like a .22 round and more like a tapered mandrel with the taper matching the angle of the throat. The greatest .22 gunsmith I ever knew told me that his was mild steel but that the secret was in the proper lube, something made, not bought, using a variety of ingredients.
Click to expand...

THANKS TIM!
I've been trying to read "in between the lines" and come up with a game plan. My 82G is now my "work horse". I've got the stock Kimber bbl, a used Shilen and a new Lilja. The last 4 or 5 days i have been learning. I made some mistakes threading and chambering but also learned a lot last week.

Yesterday i set back the stock Kimber bbl .200 and rechambered using a PTG Lilja reamer. Testing at 25 yards after 4 or 5 rounds the next 8 were thru the same hole. I had to shoot off target, i thought maybe i was missing the complete target!

Anyway the rechambered 82G bbl was shooting the best out of the 3 bbls for about 20 rounds then the groups opend up. i thought now what happened. Well after sleeping on it i figured the bbl must have leaded up. This morning i looked and i thought i could see lead fouling at the throat/lead. Brushed and cleaned the BBL and the groups closed back up at 25 yards.

I'm still pretty damn green at barrel work but i wanna learn, it's very interesting. Brent's thread is right on time for me. I'm gonna build me some kind of "hob" maybe tonite. I got some factory bbls off 10/22's i'm going to chamber one of them and cut it just past the leade so i can see the shape of my "hobb" and how it fits.

On a side note the Lilja i have is a tight bore, the Lilja reamer was to big and would not fit the bore. I have an Anshultz reamer -it fit the Lilja tight bore!

Brent don't mean to "hijack" your thread but maybe this post may help with a few comments. thanks everyone for the help i have gotten here at BC, joe :)
 
jGee,
your aren't jacking my thread at all. I'm sitting back and learning. I'll never chamber a barrel myself, (oh, I may take that back someday), but I do want to learn what is done so I can see if it can be translated by a smith I know to a .22 rifle that I might want.

As I've said before, I'm a 19th century rifleman of sorts. My rifles are unlike yours in so many ways, but a lot of what you guys do might really benefit my rifles. I'm pretty sure these reamers would be adapted just fine to a low wall or even a Ballard.

You guys aren't going to worry too much but I have a feeling I could get one of my rifles to hang pretty close to one of yours. Maybe.

Brent
 
MKnarr said:
Tim , that would make sense. When I worked in a machine shop, the lap was always softer than the material you were lapping and in this case the hob would be a lap.
Click to expand...

In this case it's not though. Remember usually a lead lap is poured to lap a stainless bbl. here it is not being lapped per se but rotated in the throat, i.e. the importance of the lube. I have also heard of some using a brass or bronze "hob", so take your pick.
 
jGEE said:
THANKS TIM!
I've been trying to read "in between the lines" and come up with a game plan. My 82G is now my "work horse". I've got the stock Kimber bbl, a used Shilen and a new Lilja. The last 4 or 5 days i have been learning. I made some mistakes threading and chambering but also learned a lot last week.

Yesterday i set back the stock Kimber bbl .200 and rechambered using a PTG Lilja reamer. Testing at 25 yards after 4 or 5 rounds the next 8 were thru the same hole. I had to shoot off target, i thought maybe i was missing the complete target!

Anyway the rechambered 82G bbl was shooting the best out of the 3 bbls for about 20 rounds then the groups opend up. i thought now what happened. Well after sleeping on it i figured the bbl must have leaded up. This morning i looked and i thought i could see lead fouling at the throat/lead. Brushed and cleaned the BBL and the groups closed back up at 25 yards.

I'm still pretty damn green at barrel work but i wanna learn, it's very interesting. Brent's thread is right on time for me. I'm gonna build me some kind of "hob" maybe tonite. I got some factory bbls off 10/22's i'm going to chamber one of them and cut it just past the leade so i can see the shape of my "hobb" and how it fits.

On a side note the Lilja i have is a tight bore, the Lilja reamer was to big and would not fit the bore. I have an Anshultz reamer -it fit the Lilja tight bore!

Brent don't mean to "hijack" your thread but maybe this post may help with a few comments. thanks everyone for the help i have gotten here at BC, joe :)
Click to expand...

I would get a tube of IOSSO bore paste. Use a short rod with a nylon brush and wrap a soaked patch around the brush and short stroak it in the throat. It is not only great lead, carbon throat maintainence but it will polish it up and reduce the fouling tendencies. Try it and then borescope the throat. Lots of centerfire BR guys use it once bbls have some rounds through them and get heat checked and carbonized which then will copper foul, it cleans up the couple inches in front of the throat very nicely.
 
Thanks again Tim,
I was gonna mention brass but didn't want to sound like a dumb ass. I'm gonna do brass, got some on hand.

Now another question. Are we trying to polish up to the lands?

I've read you want your lands sharp -but seems to me like polishing off the top sharp edge would help stop lead fouling.

Leave the lands nice and sharp or polish them back just a bit?
Got any ideas here?
thanks joe
 
BrentD said:
jGee,
your aren't jacking my thread at all. I'm sitting back and learning. I'll never chamber a barrel myself, (oh, I may take that back someday), but I do want to learn what is done so I can see if it can be translated by a smith I know to a .22 rifle that I might want.

As I've said before, I'm a 19th century rifleman of sorts. My rifles are unlike yours in so many ways, but a lot of what you guys do might really benefit my rifles. I'm pretty sure these reamers would be adapted just fine to a low wall or even a Ballard.

You guys aren't going to worry too much but I have a feeling I could get one of my rifles to hang pretty close to one of yours. Maybe.

Brent
Click to expand...

It would be a worthy experiment and a lot of fun. I'd suspect that the 2 huge challanges would be the difficulty of tuning a barrel that's essentially a stressed member of the rifle and the real problem that has always prevented a SS from consistant BR performance, it has not been possible to get the level of consistant ignition attained from a bolt action.
 
Joe,

This is the try and see part of the equation. You want to eliminate any tool marks in the throat, you want to polish of any micro burrs in the throat, you want to make damn sure the throat is dead nuts even and engraves evenly.
Remember, I'm not a gunsmith, I just play one on the computer.:eek:
 
Hobs i think is the wrong term. In a machine shop, hobs are rotating cutters (usually multi-point). they usually are mounted on gear cutters or milling machine. Anyways hobs are desighned to remove metal by cuting and not by abration...any better term for that rotating thingy to polish the throat?
 
That's what I was trying to get at. It really is more of a lap and I don't mean to lap the barrel, just the leade.
 
The hobbs i belieave are actually felt cleaning pellets used with flitz or some other polish to clean up the leade after cutting the chamber.
I cut a chamber in a broughton barrel with a std benchrest match p t g reamer lots of cutting oil and cleaning reamer in short incriments lots of oil
clean and so on cleaned and barreled up the action
Seems to shoot great.
Ithink this is an area where everybody and anybody will have an opinion.
good luck
scott
 
bagul said:
Hobs i think is the wrong term. In a machine shop, hobs are rotating cutters (usually multi-point). they usually are mounted on gear cutters or milling machine. Anyways hobs are desighned to remove metal by cuting and not by abration...any better term for that rotating thingy to polish the throat?
Click to expand...

I used that term because that's what Calfee refers to it as. You want to use "burnisher" knock yourself out.
 
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