Butch Lambert
Active member
If you guys do your setup right and I am sure you do, you have nothing to worry about. I would have more worries with a tight bushing.
Butch
Butch
C
Con Cross
Guest
W
www.technika.nu
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Butch
If you dont use the pilot anyway then you could as well remove (chop it off completely) it and have an easyer life with chips and coolant (if you are running cooland/oil through the bore)
You would not have any risk of chips harming the bore because it's stuck betwen the bore and the pilot..............
Regards Technika
If you dont use the pilot anyway then you could as well remove (chop it off completely) it and have an easyer life with chips and coolant (if you are running cooland/oil through the bore)
You would not have any risk of chips harming the bore because it's stuck betwen the bore and the pilot..............
Regards Technika
Butch Lambert
Active member
Technika,
Sometimes I do that.
Butch
Sometimes I do that.
Butch
C
Con Cross
Guest
Mr. Technika, please in your own words, are you still interested about Mr. Butch Lambert chambering lesson?
Con
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
A chamber reamer with no pilot reminds me of some production chambers I've borescoped. Many mass production setups use pilotless reamers. Some of the results are chambers that have rifling on one side of the chamber neck.
W
www.technika.nu
Guest
THe question is what happend if the reamer gets a damaged cutter on one side, can that reamer then "draw" to the other side, when there is no pilot?
I don't know, just a question.....
Technika
I don't know, just a question.....
Technika
Butch Lambert
Active member
Jerry,
You seem to know a little about machine work. If you taper bore your chamber to .020 of finished diameter and .100 short, what will a pilot do in the .100" that it has to travel to finish the bore? I agree with you if no prep is done and a reamer is just run into the bore.
Butch
You seem to know a little about machine work. If you taper bore your chamber to .020 of finished diameter and .100 short, what will a pilot do in the .100" that it has to travel to finish the bore? I agree with you if no prep is done and a reamer is just run into the bore.
Butch
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
It should follow the prebore, keyword being should.
Like Technika says, what happens if a flute chips.
What happens if a bore has a curve just at the end of the leade? I have a barrel like that.You can see it with the barrel rotating and on the indicator.
For benchrest accuracy why not use a floating pilot? For a hunting gun, who would know? The Rem 700 VLS I scoped that had rifling on one side of the neck still shot about 1.5MOA, within their specs!!!! A T/C barrel I had, I sent back to T/C for a replacement.
C
Con Cross
Guest
Butch Lambert
Active member
Jerry,
I do use a loose fitting pilot. If a place is like that in the barrel, I wouldn't chamber it. Something that bad would lock up a Deltronic pin when checking bore size. You know, we could sit here all day thinking up what ifs.
Now back to what you gave as a for instance: You tell me what would happen both with and without a bushing.
Butch
I do use a loose fitting pilot. If a place is like that in the barrel, I wouldn't chamber it. Something that bad would lock up a Deltronic pin when checking bore size. You know, we could sit here all day thinking up what ifs.
Now back to what you gave as a for instance: You tell me what would happen both with and without a bushing.
Butch
C
Con Cross
Guest
Mr. Technika can you believe, that many reamers not always cut with all flutes evenly, but still are able to cut A1 chamber.
Mr. Butch Lambert, would you believe, that these reamers have a pilot.
Con
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
I only will use a reamer with a floating pilot. I'll let you figure out what could happen without one!!!
To Technia's post above where he wrote "If you dont use the pilot anyway then you could as well remove (chop it off completely) " to which you answered in your post immediately following "Technika, Sometimes I do that. Butch "
I've already told you the results of a couple of factory chamberings that do not use a pilot of any size on their reamers. The reamer can lead way off from where it should be.
Loaning Reamers..
Butch:
You and I have been friends for several years. We have shared tooling, philosophies, and memories. Remind me, to never loan you any of my reamers.
I love this topic because there are so many ideas on the subject.
Butch you once told me if was crazy (maybe just full of BS) saying that a reamer can cut a out of round chamber. I tried to explain to you with a floating reamer holder a wondering bore and pilot can begin cutting in one axis and finish in another. Remember my trying to explain the southern term "WALLER". From time to time you see post of spent cases with bulges in the web on one side or on oposing sides. Sometimes you see a spent case neck that is oval and not round. It is often more apparent on AI type shoulders. I have seen Dashers, Winchester Short Magnums and Ultra magnums where the shoulder is close to the same diameter as the web area. Another anomaly would be for the spent case head to be angular and not perpendicular to the case walls.
We have see barrels come a long way in our years of shooting. I have seen many barrel that the bore wondered because of the poor quality of the drill geometry or the barrel had hard spots in it. Most barrels we buy today are pre contoured. The OD is centered off the bore. If one cuts a barrel and center drills it then resets it up on centers they will find that the true center has moved. I have talked with about every barrel maker about the consistency of their barrel bores. All will tell you the first few inchs are the straighetest part of the bore. The question then lies which end does the manufacture make the muzzle and which end is made the chamber. If it better to start off straight or end up straight. There are gunsmiths who chamber off the bore at the muzzle and tenon end splitting the difference. There are those who just indicate off the tenon end.
I have had this conversation with Krieger, North, Lilja, Rock, Obermyer, Kiff, Manson, and most the others. Some say the first few inches are so straight that it does not matter and others say one should pre drill and bore just in case. If one does this then he should set up then pre drill and bore. Then re indicate and rebore again. Then turn the tenon and threads. Then re-check your indicated barrel if it needs to be dialed in again. To my train of thought you are then missing out on semetrical concentricity by doing all this re- indicating.
I personally like snug fitting bushings, floating reamer holders, high presure flush systems and reaming at higher RPMS.
Rustystud
Butch:
You and I have been friends for several years. We have shared tooling, philosophies, and memories. Remind me, to never loan you any of my reamers.
I love this topic because there are so many ideas on the subject.
Butch you once told me if was crazy (maybe just full of BS) saying that a reamer can cut a out of round chamber. I tried to explain to you with a floating reamer holder a wondering bore and pilot can begin cutting in one axis and finish in another. Remember my trying to explain the southern term "WALLER". From time to time you see post of spent cases with bulges in the web on one side or on oposing sides. Sometimes you see a spent case neck that is oval and not round. It is often more apparent on AI type shoulders. I have seen Dashers, Winchester Short Magnums and Ultra magnums where the shoulder is close to the same diameter as the web area. Another anomaly would be for the spent case head to be angular and not perpendicular to the case walls.
We have see barrels come a long way in our years of shooting. I have seen many barrel that the bore wondered because of the poor quality of the drill geometry or the barrel had hard spots in it. Most barrels we buy today are pre contoured. The OD is centered off the bore. If one cuts a barrel and center drills it then resets it up on centers they will find that the true center has moved. I have talked with about every barrel maker about the consistency of their barrel bores. All will tell you the first few inchs are the straighetest part of the bore. The question then lies which end does the manufacture make the muzzle and which end is made the chamber. If it better to start off straight or end up straight. There are gunsmiths who chamber off the bore at the muzzle and tenon end splitting the difference. There are those who just indicate off the tenon end.
I have had this conversation with Krieger, North, Lilja, Rock, Obermyer, Kiff, Manson, and most the others. Some say the first few inches are so straight that it does not matter and others say one should pre drill and bore just in case. If one does this then he should set up then pre drill and bore. Then re indicate and rebore again. Then turn the tenon and threads. Then re-check your indicated barrel if it needs to be dialed in again. To my train of thought you are then missing out on semetrical concentricity by doing all this re- indicating.
I personally like snug fitting bushings, floating reamer holders, high presure flush systems and reaming at higher RPMS.
Rustystud