Reamer chip weld

B

Boe

Member
Any one know what the shelf life is on RIDGID dark cutting fluid is? I have been having trouble with chip weld on the last two barrels I have chambered .Two different barrel makers, two different reamers. I am on the last gallon of Ridgid oil since the last order. But I can't remember when I received it. I order 5-8 gallons at the time. Never had this problem before. I have the same setup and do the same thing as always. I'm getting chip weld on the reamer flutes in as little as .025 of chamber depth. It's almost like the oil is losing it's lubricity. One reamer has only cut 4 chambers and the other was used today to cut it's first. I started using this oil since they don't sell Texaco Transultex H in 5 gallon buckets anymore. Does the Ridgid breakdown over time?
Thanks, Boe
 
Don't think breakdown is the problem, sounds more like the reamers in question need some hone work.
 
I'm curious here... In addition to the chip weld, does your chamber surface finish seem to be a bit sub- par as well? Reason I ask is that I had a similar experience and determined that the steel was a bit "gummy." Carefully stoning the reamer helped a little, but the problem persisted. I tried different cutting oils with the same results so continued to use dark Hercules. I had to carefully remove welded chips from the reamer flutes time to time. The chamber required more polishing than usual and I at first thought the steel was soft. I had a stub piece Rockwell tested and it was C28, so I delivered the piece to the customer. He's very happy and the rig shoots extremely well.

Later on, Dave Kiff suggested that the remedy for this particular "gummy" stainless was to turn the rpm's up, so I'll try this if it ever happens again. Maybe this would help here?
 
Also used some Ridgid on a barrel a couple of weeks ago that did the same thing to me. It was a rented reamer and the guy charged me to have to redone. Never happened to me before. Surface finish in the chamber was poor also. I normally use Rapid Tap but was out of it and this was a chromemoly barrel so I thought the Ridgid would be fine. Guess I was wrong. By the way, this was some older Ridgid, but like Jim said, I don't think it breaks down.
 
Both of the barrels were stainless, Yes finish of the first barrel was poor. It got so bad that I was having to stone the reamer every .025 of chamber depth. I was not able to finish the chamber no matter what I did. I ran the speed up to 180 RPM and down to 60 RPM. Nothing would help. The last barrel I chambered with it it cut like butter. I sent the reamer back to have it checked. Nothing wrong with the reamer. I had it resharpened while it was there. I don't know what the problem is. If it's not the oil maybe it is gummy steel. Hard to believe I have two in a row. One of the makers said it might be 410 stainless instead of 416. I ordered some Superkut HD dark cutting fluid last night. Maybe this will cure the problem. I am really tired of stoning reamers. I don't want to do anymore chambering until I change something. Like I said two different barrel makers two different reamers. One being new. The only thing that was the same was the Ridgid. We'll see. Boe
 
I haven't had issues with regard to dark cutting oil getting stale or breaking down. I use a rather odd 50/50 mixture of dark cutting oil and rapid tap. Works well for me. I might suggest that you are cutting too deep with each plunge. I really like to suggest that you use light pecks with each plunge of about .010...retract the reamer and clear the chips from the flutes...followed by blowing compressed air in the chamber to clear the chips. Keep going till you get to full depth. I like to switch to straight rapid tap on the last few thousands of finish depth. You can't clean your chips out too often. Blowing air down the chamber each time is key. It should be a clean chamber with each plunge. Build up in the flutes will always lead to rolled chips.

I typically ream at 60 rpm....but I will step up to 100 rpm or so on stainless if I am getting poor finish or low speed chatter on re-entry of the reamer.

Cheers
Mac.
 
No...actually if properly pre drilled and rough reamed the finishing reamer done with light pecks...followed by chip clearing doesn't really take all that long. Remember that reamers are not fed like drill bits. There is a plunge...and then a clean up....a plunge and a clean up....it doesn't take all that long....but you must never let reamers load chips. The closer to full depth the more surface of the reamer is in contact...the more material you load in the flutes. Cleaning and reoiling is key. .010 is the minimum I would plunge (unless I was doing the last couple turns to set head space). It is really a feel and evaluate issue. Look at how much swarf you are getting per plunge and determine if you can go deeper and not load the hell outta the reamer. If you can get .062 per plunge then okay. But start with light pecks to determine what you can get away with and not over load the flutes. The lighter 50/50 mix is often more useful to me as the heavy dark fluid makes for a chip mixed paste. I like a lighter fluid as it blows clean better and encourages flowing of the chips up the reamer away from the cutting action.

Cheers
Mac.
 
Boe said:
Any one know what the shelf life is on RIDGID dark cutting fluid is? I have been having trouble with chip weld on the last two barrels I have chambered .Two different barrel makers, two different reamers. I am on the last gallon of Ridgid oil since the last order. But I can't remember when I received it. I order 5-8 gallons at the time. Never had this problem before. I have the same setup and do the same thing as always. I'm getting chip weld on the reamer flutes in as little as .025 of chamber depth. It's almost like the oil is losing it's lubricity. One reamer has only cut 4 chambers and the other was used today to cut it's first. I started using this oil since they don't sell Texaco Transultex H in 5 gallon buckets anymore. Does the Ridgid breakdown over time?
Thanks, Boe
Click to expand...

Your Rigid cutting oil should not break down, at least for a few decades. Note the oil in the Gulf, its in salt water and its still there!! If the oil has gotten contaminated, get another batch.

As to your reamer situation, much of the problem is probably process. Additionally, get yourself a small triangular shaped hard Arkansas stone (about ¼” per side), Use it on each reamer flute to remove the BUE (Built Up Edge). To do this lay a flat of the stone, lengthwise, on a reamer flute TOP, and polish off the BUE. Do this on each flute on each reamer.

As to process, you should be able to plunge 0.075” or more each pass. Clean the reamer and the unfinished chamber. Squirt oil in the chamber. With the spindle stopped, set the reamer in place for the next cut. Squirt some more oil on the top Vee of the reamer, then, start the spindle and the next cut. Do this till you get down to the last few thousands.

More process—use a floating pusher. Search old posts or go to Mike Bryant’s web site for details. With a floating pusher, you are holding the reamer by hand and can feel when the reamer is loading up and needs retracting.

Retracting the reamer-- back it off a few thousands then stop the spindle before fully retracting and cleaning.

One thing to realize with any forming tool, and a chamber reamer is just that, any time you run the spindle with the cutter against the workpiece and it is not in-cut, you are just work-hardening the surface. Work-hardened material, and Stainless Steel is one of the worst, will dull a cutter faster than you could imagine. Working steel is not like working wood at all. Working steel, or any material that will work-harden, get into the cut, do the work, then immediately get out.
 
Jerry,
Thanks for the advice. After reading your post you must chamber the same way I do. I have I been chambering that way for almost 20 years. I have an arkansas stone that got more use on the last 2 chambers than in all of the barrels before. And I do use a floating pusher. The only thing different I use now is the MARS that Nat Lambeth and Dave Kiff make. Great tool. That's the odd thing about it, my process has stayed the same and I have always gotten excellent results. Until now. I can't get more than .025 in the chamber before the reamers feels like it's grinding. The chips look more like hacksaw chips than from a reamer.The first barrel I dismissed as a bad barrel. The next one I knew I had something going wrong .I am open for any suggestions. I need to chamber a barrel in the morning hopefully the new oil will be here in the morning too. Thanks for all the suggestions from all posts. When I find the problem I will let you know maybe it will save someone some time.

Boe
 
Boe said:
Jerry,
Thanks for the advice. After reading your post you must chamber the same way I do. I have I been chambering that way for almost 20 years. I have an arkansas stone that got more use on the last 2 chambers than in all of the barrels before. And I do use a floating pusher. The only thing different I use now is the MARS that Nat Lambeth and Dave Kiff make. Great tool. That's the odd thing about it, my process has stayed the same and I have always gotten excellent results. Until now. I can't get more than .025 in the chamber before the reamers feels like it's grinding. The chips look more like hacksaw chips than from a reamer.The first barrel I dismissed as a bad barrel. The next one I knew I had something going wrong .I am open for any suggestions. I need to chamber a barrel in the morning hopefully the new oil will be here in the morning too. Thanks for all the suggestions from all posts. When I find the problem I will let you know maybe it will save someone some time.

Boe
Click to expand...

Is this one of the exotic barrel materials that are sometimes being used now or is it CrM or 416? (I can't recall, Blackstar??)

BTW, beginners, my suggestion of 0.075" or so plunge suggestion is for chambers that are pre drilled and pre bored.
 
Jerry,
The first barrel was supposed to be 416 stainless, but after calling the maker he said it might have been some leftover 410 stainless. That one I had a hard time getting slick threads on. The other barrel I am pretty sure it is 416R stainless. Shoot, at this point who knows!!
Boe
 
The next thing that would bother me is getting different steels from a barrel maker than what you ordered and even worse a barrel maker who does not know what he has or what he is shipping.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top