Re Run on the idea of a true Benchrest Scope

[andyd1179]

Hya Guys,


I've been talking to someone this weekend from a scope company about the idea of a true Benchrest scope for rimfire and air rifle, and they are very interested in the idea.

So what I need to do is run this thread on here and on one or two others to see what rimfire and air rifle shooters would want from a scope and then gather the information from you to put into a document for them to look at.

Some of you are well known shooters and it would be good to have your names to add to this document, so maybe it would be good if you emailed me as my email address is available in my profile.

So what would make a good scope that was at an affordable price for all shooters as this is what we are looking at, not just top shooters but the shooter looking to get into the sport at mid level in custom rifles.

Some have said the following:
Fix power is the way to go with maybe a magnification of 45x45
MOA of 1/16th for finer zeroing
A bigger exit pupil
A good eye relief
The mil dot being a different colour to be able to be seen on different targets
Left to right turret on the left of the scope
Weight around 17oz
1" tube

These are just a few ideas but if rimfire and air rifle shooters are to have a true Benchrest scope, then this is the starting point by gathering information from shooters to start the process, we are the ones on the firing line and shoot bechrest and know what would make the difference.

So please make your views known in what details you would like to see in the scope.

Andyd

 

[Pete Wass]

A close friend

who knows a lot about telescopes, having been an amatuer Astronomer through and since college sez most scopes have too large an occular lense assembly on them. The larger assembys add significant weight and exceed the amount of light the tube will permit through them. I think he feels they are installed for marketing purposes.

For only having to see 50 yards, I feel there is little need to go beyond 36X. What in the world does anyone need any more magnification for? I find I can see 50 Yd Rimfire Targets pretty well with 6 X scopes and I wear tri-focals on my 66 YO eyes. Why anyone would ever need to go beyond 36 escapes me.

There must be a compelling reasin the March scope appears to be as reliable as they are. Probably if a Maker looked at what March has done and duplicate that, they would be well on their way. That said, I heard a discussion among a small group of March owners this past weekend complaining about the sharpness of the optics. All said other scopes had better optic quality.

Whatever is done, the scopes need to absolutely hold proper POI, at whatever the cost. Lots of people who don't compete buy competition scopes, for reasons unknown to most of us, so the market is much bigger than the numbers we BR shooters represent.

 

[alan k]

I have been trashed by suggesting that my March was not as sharp as my Lupold Competition scopes!

Thank you Pete.

Al Kunard

 

[Picher]

If you think your scope has too large an objective, try cutting out a disk that will be the size of the lens, and cut out the center about the size you think the lens should be, probably 3/16" smaller than the lens? Tape the remaining ring to the inside of the objective tube, against the lens.

The result should be a clearer image, though not quite as bright as the original sized lens. The larger the objective lens, the more the light traveling through near the edge has to bend to focus, causing worse clarity than that of a smaller lens. I've tried it on hunting scopes to be able to see the image clearly at short range and it works pretty well in full daylight.

The ideal may be to have an adjustable aperture that would fit into the objective end, close to the lens, but not touching it.

Someone could try attaching a tube to a lens cover, so the back end would be close to the lens, but not touching it. I might try that myself.

Picher

 

[tim]

I have been trashed by suggesting that my March was not as sharp as my Lupold Competition scopes!

Thank you Pete.

Al Kunard

As far as the March 40's they've been lab tested. They are. As far as friends that know a lot about scopes. Lets assume he's not looking at mars through a BR scope. I got a friend swears he has a crashed UFO in his basement. I must have had a dozen guys look through my 40 at the IBS nationals last year.....unanimous vote.

 

[tim]

If you think your scope has too large an objective, try cutting out a disk that will be the size of the lens, and cut out the center about the size you think the lens should be, probably 3/16" smaller than the lens? Tape the remaining ring to the inside of the objective tube, against the lens.

The result should be a clearer image, though not quite as bright as the original sized lens. The larger the objective lens, the more the light traveling through near the edge has to bend to focus, causing worse clarity than that of a smaller lens. I've tried it on hunting scopes to be able to see the image clearly at short range and it works pretty well in full daylight.

The ideal may be to have an adjustable aperture that would fit into the objective end, close to the lens, but not touching it.

Someone could try attaching a tube to a lens cover, so the back end would be close to the lens, but not touching it. I might try that myself.

Picher

FYI the clarity is the same. 2 things change, flare, which gets reduced depending on wether the sun is anywhere out front, and depth of field which is increased at the expense of image quality, which is why the March's now come with a screw in stop down element....mostly for the early morning flare and heavy mirage.

As to the March's I'd bet that the root of a lot of clarity issues is the lack of carefull eyepiece adjustment and side focus. They're critical and you can fool your eye breifly to where it looks good until a few minutes later and has to be constanly adjusted throughout the day, it took me quite some time to get a good handle on this.

 

[alan k]

See what I mean, Pete -- trashed again and by those who don't own a March! Side focus? would that be parallax adjustment? Similar to my Leupolds. March supplys cheap - crap plastic lens covers 2 each caus they tend to blow off the bench and get lost.

Just a note: when adjusting the "side focus" start at infinity.

Al Kunard

 

[Pete Wass]

See what I mean, Pete -- trashed again and by those who don't own a March! Side focus? would that be parallax adjustment? Similar to my Leupolds. March supplys cheap - crap plastic lens covers 2 each caus they tend to blow off the bench and get lost.

Just a note: when adjusting the "side focus" start at infinity.

Al Kunard

Al, you must always consider the source of the reply on these things. Some folks are the fractional kid from fractional famalies.

 

[glp]

Andy,
The exit pupil is fixed by the scope's particulars. Exit pupil = diameter of objective/magnification. In the case of a 45mm obj lens and 45X the exit pupil is 1 mm in diameter. Nothing you can do about that!

Hya Guys,


I've been talking to someone this weekend from a scope company about the idea of a true Benchrest scope for rimfire and air rifle, and they are very interested in the idea.

So what I need to do is run this thread on here and on one or two others to see what rimfire and air rifle shooters would want from a scope and then gather the information from you to put into a document for them to look at.

Some of you are well known shooters and it would be good to have your names to add to this document, so maybe it would be good if you emailed me as my email address is available in my profile.

So what would make a good scope that was at an affordable price for all shooters as this is what we are looking at, not just top shooters but the shooter looking to get into the sport at mid level in custom rifles.

Some have said the following:
Fix power is the way to go with maybe a magnification of 45x45
MOA of 1/16th for finer zeroing
A bigger exit pupil
A good eye relief
The mil dot being a different colour to be able to be seen on different targets
Left to right turret on the left of the scope
Weight around 17oz
1" tube

These are just a few ideas but if rimfire and air rifle shooters are to have a true Benchrest scope, then this is the starting point by gathering information from shooters to start the process, we are the ones on the firing line and shoot bechrest and know what would make the difference.

So please make your views known in what details you would like to see in the scope.

Andyd

 

[glp]

Tim,
Well at least the provide lens covers. When the Leup competition first hit the market they did not...can you believe a 1K scope and no lens covers? Lenses are pretty critical to a scope and keeping them clean and damage free is kinda important...I think? The best lens covers I have run into for the Leup are the leather ones Bill Krizinski used to sell. Not sure if they are still available. Easy on and off and cool looking. --Greg

FYI the clarity is the same. 2 things change, flare, which gets reduced depending on wether the sun is anywhere out front, and depth of field which is increased at the expense of image quality, which is why the March's now come with a screw in stop down element....mostly for the early morning flare and heavy mirage.

As to the March's I'd bet that the root of a lot of clarity issues is the lack of carefull eyepiece adjustment and side focus. They're critical and you can fool your eye breifly to where it looks good until a few minutes later and has to be constanly adjusted throughout the day, it took me quite some time to get a good handle on this.

 

[tim]

Tim,
Well at least the provide lens covers. When the Leup competition first hit the market they did not...can you believe a 1K scope and no lens covers? Lenses are pretty critical to a scope and keeping them clean and damage free is kinda important...I think? The best lens covers I have run into for the Leup are the leather ones Bill Krizinski used to sell. Not sure if they are still available. Easy on and off and cool looking. --Greg

I remember I had an early one, I was lucky when mine went it went right in the middle of a group match, was doing well after 100yards, first group @ 200 was about 6". FYI those covers are made by Jason Coye who is a damned fine group shooter from western NY, I'll get you a number if you need it.