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C
Carp
Guest
Hambone
John
Gotta ya!
Where are you regarding the thought that its almost impossible to shoot out a .22r/f barrel.
Hambone,
It is not impossible......been there done that. Barrel #2 on my Turbo. It was not improper cleaning.
Carp
John
Gotta ya!
Where are you regarding the thought that its almost impossible to shoot out a .22r/f barrel.
Hambone,
It is not impossible......been there done that. Barrel #2 on my Turbo. It was not improper cleaning.
Carp
Charles, one of the reasons the 6 groove thread went on here is also related to your last post as well. First off some guys were dispatched from the clone forum because there's an unfortunate trend that now develops there. While nobody has any illusions as to why the forum ultimately exists, often the honoree of said forum makes a post, generally involving the usual self promotion, and if there is anything contrary or an attempt to set the factual record straight, that gets selectively deleted.
Said honoree often praises products when there's a bit of back door compinsation, diss's those directly or indirectly when there's no revenue incomming. I think you'd agree, not exactly objective. Also liberal credit taking whether deserving or not. There are human limits I hope you'd agree. So the point of some of this stuff is ultimately to provide a bit of fair counterpoint. Everybody does not expect our moderators to follow everybody everywhere but you should realize sometimes relevance is measured in the greater scheme of things. It's often a case of something starts in one spot, gets picked up a carried someplace else, kind of the cyberspace chessgame equivilent. Nobody said it's rational.
Said honoree often praises products when there's a bit of back door compinsation, diss's those directly or indirectly when there's no revenue incomming. I think you'd agree, not exactly objective. Also liberal credit taking whether deserving or not. There are human limits I hope you'd agree. So the point of some of this stuff is ultimately to provide a bit of fair counterpoint. Everybody does not expect our moderators to follow everybody everywhere but you should realize sometimes relevance is measured in the greater scheme of things. It's often a case of something starts in one spot, gets picked up a carried someplace else, kind of the cyberspace chessgame equivilent. Nobody said it's rational.
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C
Carp
Guest
Tim and Charles E
I've been called on for a post on one forum with out relavance to another post on the other. It was just a warning...or maybe a threat, I don't know. But, no matter how unfair it may seem...I don't have my own forum to just see how I would run it. I feel that considerable effort is put into both and without question, as far as me, it has been served well. But I don't have my own forum. Badmouthing sometimes is a good way to bring things back to perspective...and others it is nothing but badmouthing. The really good guys get no media-time. They just get ingnored...unless they complain and then it looks bad on them. I feel bad for guys like James Pappas. He is a genuinely good guy. He has great products. He has something to say now and then and some folks take him wrong and bash him. I've seen self promotion from him a bit....but not to the extent of another....not even close...as far apart as Fenway Park and Dodger Stadium. The difference is how we take it and perceive it and talk about it on open, or semi-open forums. There are many things that folks don't want to hear about...like shooting out barrels and nearly un-beatable ammo. They exist. And the poor folks at Rock Creek Barrels....can you find anyone more excited about rimfire in the barrel making world? I don't think so. They are committed. They have a real investment that counts for their livelihood. They deserve our attention. Fine folks like Stiller and Hall and Benchmark deserve our attention. It is a commonsense approach to the manufacturers of todays equipment and tomorrows. Just my 2 cents.
John M. Carper
I've been called on for a post on one forum with out relavance to another post on the other. It was just a warning...or maybe a threat, I don't know. But, no matter how unfair it may seem...I don't have my own forum to just see how I would run it. I feel that considerable effort is put into both and without question, as far as me, it has been served well. But I don't have my own forum. Badmouthing sometimes is a good way to bring things back to perspective...and others it is nothing but badmouthing. The really good guys get no media-time. They just get ingnored...unless they complain and then it looks bad on them. I feel bad for guys like James Pappas. He is a genuinely good guy. He has great products. He has something to say now and then and some folks take him wrong and bash him. I've seen self promotion from him a bit....but not to the extent of another....not even close...as far apart as Fenway Park and Dodger Stadium. The difference is how we take it and perceive it and talk about it on open, or semi-open forums. There are many things that folks don't want to hear about...like shooting out barrels and nearly un-beatable ammo. They exist. And the poor folks at Rock Creek Barrels....can you find anyone more excited about rimfire in the barrel making world? I don't think so. They are committed. They have a real investment that counts for their livelihood. They deserve our attention. Fine folks like Stiller and Hall and Benchmark deserve our attention. It is a commonsense approach to the manufacturers of todays equipment and tomorrows. Just my 2 cents.
John M. Carper
John,
Let me be a little over dramatic here. You can argue that bad-mouthing is a way to bring things into perspective, but so too is armed robbery a way to get money. It just happens to be against the rules.
As far as the forum rules go, no one at BR Central is out to create the perfect forum -- certainly not perfect for all. The conventions -- rules, if you want -- some of which have come from experience, some by common sense, are just there. It is usually a mater of degree. Nudging versus bad mouthing. It reminds me of a thing we had in school. To turn the old joke on it's head, it is easy enough to say what art is, what can be hard is to say whether or not *this piece* is a work of art.
Worse, some people play games, to see just how close they can come & get away with it. More than one does that. Tim calls it human nature, and I suppose that is right. But if we just describe this and throw up our hands, nothing gets done.
So moderators deletions and infractions can be a judgement call. We have to live with that.
A second problem: what can and cannot effectively be done on BR Central or any forum, or to some extent, with any book? Essentially, it is equipment, and techniques that can be measured with tools. How would you like to try and describe, in detail, how to use wind flags, given only a written medium. Not me. But what is more important to shooting well?
Shooting well is a system sort of thing. Every thing has to be working for you, not just one or two. You're "in the zone," not thinking and calculating. Preparation counts only so that bad things don't happen to kick you out of the zone.
OK, that's a little cavalier. But almost all we can do with words, with forums, is in the preparation area. One reason the top shooters don't post is because for them, all we talk about is basic stuff that has nothing to do with actually shooting.
I don't buy that it is hopeless to have a forum that can't even cover preparation, because human nature inevitably leads to bickering and infighting. Words are still useful things, and human nature always needs controls on it to have any kind of society, even the temporary one of an internet forum.
Edit:
I'll allow we've gotten a bit off the topic . . .
Let me be a little over dramatic here. You can argue that bad-mouthing is a way to bring things into perspective, but so too is armed robbery a way to get money. It just happens to be against the rules.
As far as the forum rules go, no one at BR Central is out to create the perfect forum -- certainly not perfect for all. The conventions -- rules, if you want -- some of which have come from experience, some by common sense, are just there. It is usually a mater of degree. Nudging versus bad mouthing. It reminds me of a thing we had in school. To turn the old joke on it's head, it is easy enough to say what art is, what can be hard is to say whether or not *this piece* is a work of art.
Worse, some people play games, to see just how close they can come & get away with it. More than one does that. Tim calls it human nature, and I suppose that is right. But if we just describe this and throw up our hands, nothing gets done.
So moderators deletions and infractions can be a judgement call. We have to live with that.
A second problem: what can and cannot effectively be done on BR Central or any forum, or to some extent, with any book? Essentially, it is equipment, and techniques that can be measured with tools. How would you like to try and describe, in detail, how to use wind flags, given only a written medium. Not me. But what is more important to shooting well?
Shooting well is a system sort of thing. Every thing has to be working for you, not just one or two. You're "in the zone," not thinking and calculating. Preparation counts only so that bad things don't happen to kick you out of the zone.
OK, that's a little cavalier. But almost all we can do with words, with forums, is in the preparation area. One reason the top shooters don't post is because for them, all we talk about is basic stuff that has nothing to do with actually shooting.
I don't buy that it is hopeless to have a forum that can't even cover preparation, because human nature inevitably leads to bickering and infighting. Words are still useful things, and human nature always needs controls on it to have any kind of society, even the temporary one of an internet forum.
Edit:
I'll allow we've gotten a bit off the topic . . .
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H
Hambone
Guest
Shoot out a Barrel - No way!
Abuse a Barrel so it does not shoot - done ever day!
Ask "Old Blue"
(Excess of 200,000 Rounds and still trucking!)
Food For Thought
200,000....Wow!
H
Hambone
Guest
Let me answer the OP's question first
I personally like the Polygon since I believe the lack of sharp edges within the bore is better. I think it stays cleaner longer, and I believe that polygonal bores are more forgiving of inconsistancies in twist rate.
Now for the rest of you. All these posts and I've only seen one other opinion to the OP's question. The rest are either off track, or replies insinuating the OP is trolling, if so why do you bite? If I were a moderator I would probably delete the second post it has absollutly no relavence to the question.
Thanks Cliff on both counts
Abuse of power is never a pretty sight be it by a government or by a small time forum moderator. With the first we get a chance to vote them out, with the second we get a chance to see them squirm and try to justify their actions. They never quite get there though.
H
Hambone
Guest
John
Gotta ya!
Where are you regarding the thought that its almost impossible to shoot out a .22r/f barrel.
Hambone,
It is not impossible......been there done that. Barrel #2 on my Turbo. It was not improper cleaning.
Carp
OK. Some details would be appreciated. how many rounds, type, what went wrong etc.
J
J Pappas
Guest
Hambone
You abuse your power to post more than all the moderators combined. Charles for some reason is your target, he has done nothing to deserve your continuing post. Wilbur is a real easy going person but I think you are close to pissing him off.
Thanks Cliff on both counts
Abuse of power is never a pretty sight be it by a government or by a small time forum moderator. With the first we get a chance to vote them out, with the second we get a chance to see them squirm and try to justify their actions. They never quite get there though.
You abuse your power to post more than all the moderators combined. Charles for some reason is your target, he has done nothing to deserve your continuing post. Wilbur is a real easy going person but I think you are close to pissing him off.
You abuse your power to post more than all the moderators combined. Charles for some reason is your target, he has done nothing to deserve your continuing post. Wilbur is a real easy going person but I think you are close to pissing him off.
Ya gotta admit James the guy's got a future in customer relations.
T
tuna921
Guest
Polygons barrels are more wind sensitive like the Medford and Octagon in my experience ,,,,,,,,,,,,
H
Hambone
Guest
You abuse your power to post more than all the moderators combined. Charles for some reason is your target, he has done nothing to deserve your continuing post. Wilbur is a real easy going person but I think you are close to pissing him off.
Jim
Thanks for sharing. But without the full facts. I doubt that you've seen a fraction of what has been deleted. A lack of objectivity has to be expected. I no way blame you for that, its just the way it is.
AFAIC The subject has run its course. Chuck has done his part , and I have done mine. The play is writ and the scenes have been play. Apart for a few stragglers in the wings the stage is bare waiting for the next act to begin. Perhaps it will be a musical comedy act. I like them.
H
Hambone
Guest
Polygons barrels are more wind sensitive like the Medford and Octagon in my experience ,,,,,,,,,,,,
Why do you think that is?
I'm sure there's some sort of ballistic theory, but I'm never sure if ballistics is an exact science. It would be interesting to find out though.