Rare have I heard of a 22 hornet shooting well

I abandoned Lil' Gun in my K-Hornet because of high velocity spreads. Also, the high velocities came at the expense of short brass (WW) life - 5 loads to loose primers. Only WW pistol primers seemed to tame the velocity spead, but the high velocities went away as well. The 40 V-Max in my 1 in 14 twist barrel works wonders.
 
Accurate Hornets?

Hi Gang:

While I was in the local gun store today, I was informed about two Hornets that would shoot 1/4" groups all day. One was a Ruger 77 and the other was a Browning Mini.

I invited them to show me how well these guns will shoot but as always, I never get taken up on my offer. LOL

Zeke
 
Worker said:
So what is it about this cartridge that makes it challenging ? Does the improved version improve its accuracy performance.
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I agree with several other posters, the CZ527 Hornet is a shooter. Mine shoots the 35g V-Max over 13.2g of Lil'Gun at 3/4 MOA or less.

It's a great walk around varmint rifle. Not too loud, drops GH and fox right in their shadow, easy to reload for, inexpensive to shoot.

Lot to like about that cartridge in the CZ.

Fitch
 
hornet

american rifle makers use sammi spec. chambers,the european makers use cip spec. . the cip chamber is tighter then the sammi,and shoots much better out of the box.
in most cases handloading for american made hornets will get you better accuracy.
neck sizing only and just half way down the neck,and useing the lee collet sizing die and crimp die willl help. as the hornet case is thin and a roll crimp will crush the case mouth in most cases.
the hornet is easy to reload and cheap to shoot,there is a wealth of info online on reloading this fine little round.
 
Once that a person realizes that the Hornet is NOT a benchrest cartridge...Most of the modern rifles that were chambered for it will shoot 1/2 minute of groundhog or better at it's effective range (balistically) for vermin. It is still fine for what it was intended and if you need more, step up to the 218 Bee or 222.
Mark
 
I've owned several....

love hate affair. Anyone remotely considering a 22 Hornet should go the 17 Ackley Hornet or a 221 Fireball instead. I shudder to think of the money that I have wasted on trying to get various hornets to shoot. I even went the total custom route on a 22 K hornet. First trip to the range with a 221 FB and you are done with load development, close to the same thing with the 17 Ackley Hornet.
 
hey this guy knows it.... huh?

keithcandler said:
love hate affair. Anyone remotely considering a 22 Hornet should go the 17 Ackley Hornet or a 221 Fireball instead. I shudder to think of the money that I have wasted on trying to get various hornets to shoot. I even went the total custom route on a 22 K hornet. First trip to the range with a 221 FB and you are done with load development, close to the same thing with the 17 Ackley Hornet.
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As I read this post I thought "Gee this guy has the same experiences I've had"...THEN, I realize it was KC. I purchased my first 17 cal barrel blank from you, right? Either that or maybe a friend of yours?
Yup, the important thing is, any true rifle enthusiast is MISSING OUT if he has not built or owned a 17 Ackley Hornet. And yes, my .221FB was a one holer out of my first factory CZ. 1680 powder under the 40 Vmax...bang zoom, load done. Make 500 for Montana and 'go'. And of course make at least 1,200 rounds of 17AH each and every trip. My 17AH is still going and accurate at just over 6,000 rounds thru the tube. Lots of 17AHs getting built around here.
 
Worker said:
So what is it about this cartridge that makes it challenging ? Does the improved version improve its accuracy performance.
Click to expand...

I think it has to do with being a rimmed cartridge and the size of case and the primer.
 
Alaninga said:
As I read this post I thought "Gee this guy has the same experiences I've had"...THEN, I realize it was KC. I purchased my first 17 cal barrel blank from you, right? Either that or maybe a friend of yours?
Yup, the important thing is, any true rifle enthusiast is MISSING OUT if he has not built or owned a 17 Ackley Hornet. And yes, my .221FB was a one holer out of my first factory CZ. 1680 powder under the 40 Vmax...bang zoom, load done. Make 500 for Montana and 'go'. And of course make at least 1,200 rounds of 17AH each and every trip. My 17AH is still going and accurate at just over 6,000 rounds thru the tube. Lots of 17AHs getting built around here.
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I built a 17 AI Hornet... shot fairly well but the barrel showed considerably throat wear in 400 rounds and accuracy dropped ... the barrel maker replaced the barrel... second barrel did the same thing... that is the last barrel I use from that maker (an old name maker)... my Shilen barrel in 17 Remington AI shot thousands...
 
Hornet accuracy can be had...just start all over!

Case design: The Ackley with it's shoulder is a much better mouse trap.
Case quality: Due to the thin cases, it doesn't take much to get the runout to unacceptable limits. Further, brass inconsistency with the small case capacity, leads to inaccuracy. You definately should turn necks to clean them up for concentricity reasons as well as consistent bullet grip. Weighing cases and discarding those with greater variations of .001 case wall thickness is a must.
Tighter than SAMMI chambers: Tight chambers are a must when dealing with such thin brass. You need a good custom reamer to closely match the turned brass. The further you have to move brass to resize the worse it will distort.
Good quality barrel and actions: Many hornets get their bad reputation from being chambered in smaller and many times cheaper actions. Get the best, true it, use a barrel from a top manufacturer and you are on your way.
Shoot the best bullets you can find. Weigh your bullets as small variations in weight equate to big variations on target using such a little case.
The same goes for powder charges as we all know.
Essentially, I find I am playing the benchrest game with this tiny cartridge.
 
Walt Collins said:
Case design: The Ackley with it's shoulder is a much better mouse trap.
Case quality: Due to the thin cases, it doesn't take much to get the runout to unacceptable limits. Further, brass inconsistency with the small case capacity, leads to inaccuracy. You definately should turn necks to clean them up for concentricity reasons as well as consistent bullet grip. Weighing cases and discarding those with greater variations of .001 case wall thickness is a must.
Tighter than SAMMI chambers: Tight chambers are a must when dealing with such thin brass. You need a good custom reamer to closely match the turned brass. The further you have to move brass to resize the worse it will distort.
Good quality barrel and actions: Many hornets get their bad reputation from being chambered in smaller and many times cheaper actions. Get the best, true it, use a barrel from a top manufacturer and you are on your way.
Shoot the best bullets you can find. Weigh your bullets as small variations in weight equate to big variations on target using such a little case.
The same goes for powder charges as we all know.
Essentially, I find I am playing the benchrest game with this tiny cartridge.
Click to expand...

Wow. That's all good to know I suppose, but I guess it depends on what one is going to do with the rifle. I just hunt ground hogs and other small varmints with my Hornet. It gets shot at paper to check the scope every spring (already been there done that for this year).

The following apply to my CZ .22 Hornet and .223 CZ American.

I've never weighed a bullet or a case for a Hornet. Never turned a neck. Never checked runout. Never bought a good custom reamer or after market barrel. I shoot unturned Winchester brass. Stick in whatever small rifle primer is in stock when loading them. I do shoot only 35g V-Max and 13.2g of Lil'Gun because they work every time.

I do weigh the charges although I'm not convinced that's actually necessry - one could pour the case full of Lil'Gun, wipe it off level with a finger, press in the 35g V-max seated out to where it will just fit in the magazine, and it will shoot 3 shot clover leafs and bugholes (it's a 3 shot group rifle used to kill one shot ground hogs - 5 shot groups are endless frustration - the first shot from a cold bore is what counts). I just load them in my CZ and go kill ground hogs. It's about a 200 to 225 to yard rifle with the 3-9 duplex scope on it - it's sighted 1" high at 100 yards.

I've never, ever, had a ground hog complan that I didn't have a custom barrel, turned necks, special reamer, pistol primer, or anything, 'cause they are DRT right after the bang (with so little recoil I get to see the impact). The entrance wound is almost always right where I wanted it to be.

I did pillar bed the action into the stock. I discovered Lil'Gun on my second load development experiment. That was the end of load development. That was about the extent of my fussing.

One of the beautiful things about this cartridge, at least in my little CZ, is how easy it is to use. Load a bunch of ammo - I usually load a couple hundred rounds at a time, last me 3 or 4 years. Shoot a foulers and two more in the spring to check the scope. Clean it in the fall after killing 25 to 35 ground hogs with it, repeat the next summer. I have 500 or so brass. As easy as Lil'Gun is on the brass that's looking like a life time supply.

If I had to play the benchrest game with my Hornet or my .223CZ it I'd sell them in a heartbeat. Life's too short to have to shoot bench rest ammo at ground hogs. I bought them to be walk around hunting rifles that are carried on a sling and fired 99% of the time from field positions.

The accuracy limit in the field is my ability to hold the rifle, not the rifle.

I like the CZ Hornet and the CZ .223in large part because they are such easy keepers and shoot so well with so little fuss. Aim, fire, game drops dead, savor little spurt of pleasure from successful shot, look for next one. It's a great way to hunt. Work real fine, last long time, no muss, no fuss, hit what you aim at. Lot to like about that.

Fitch
 
I ran into an old gentleman at a gunshow 5 yrs ago. We were looking at some 22H stuff at a table, brass, bullets etc.

Somehow it came out that he had 700 cases. I told him he better get shooting or he'd never use it all-he was 75 or so.
 
I agree!

I agree, the 17AH is EASY! No turn, rarely 'clean/tumble', just load 'em and shoot 'em.
One of my 17AH reamers cuts a rather large neck, it expands about 0.009" each firing and still last at least 6 loads [and going]. So the 'thin walled case' seems to not know it is 'weak'! WW brass takes a beating and keeps on going. The other is a tight spec reamer that will make a chamber 'fit to' Winchester brass. No expansion ring on any load, hot or not. It is the reamer used now, the first 'sloppy' reamer is in retirement. It could get sent back to Clymer one day for a 'trim', but with the newer reamer made to spec, the older one will reside in a reamer tube until needed.
Also, you 17AH'ers, have you ever needed to size anything other than the neck? I think the hornet case, being "thin" walled, will cram into a chamber EVEN IF it is a bit expanded. A thicker walled case might HAVE TO be sized a bit in the body and shoulder. My CZs in 17AH will CRAM that thin walled case in if they have to..Ha!
Yes, the 17 Ackley Hornet is my favorite round....and I have owned a LOT of rifles in 45 years of shooting [42 years of reloading].
I wouldn't mind if it were a rimless case, but jumping up to the .17 Mach IV/Fireball takes a tad more powder when it just isn't needed under a 20 gr bullet.
Yes, I have a 17 Mach IV, too. PacNor 3 groove Super match 9" twist. It's a one holer, but it gets shot about half as much as the 17AH in Montana.
I've got friends that have built several 17 PeeWees and have the reamer available, but when I put a Mach IV case next to a 17 PeeWee and 17 Ack Hnt case, it's not quite worth the expense just to get a rimless case version of the 17AH. I'll just take the RIMMED hornet case and live it.....and do it very well!
 
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Just thought I would add a little to this thread, now that I've gotten some results to ponder. Had an Anschutz 1730D converted to K-Hornet with a reamer specially made by Dave Kiff. He had told me that I should expect the rifle to be more efficient with this chamber (that means lower powder charge for the smae performance). Well, it was a bit more efficient than I expected, so it's taken me a couple extra trips to the range to sort it out. This thing will start loosening primer pockets & seperating cases at anything over 12.5 grs of Lil'Gun. My other K-Hornet with SAAMI chamber can go to about 13.5 grs without wreaking havoc on the brass. Anyway, I have settled on a load of 12.2 - 12.3 grs of Lil'Gun with 40 V-Max in Winchester brass for the time being, and it yeilds 3220 fps chronograghed at about 15 ft frome muzzle. The really interesting part of this is the primers. I have tried WSR, 205M, CCI Small Pistol, Rem 6 1/2, and now Wolf SR (not SRM). With all the others, my SD numbers were in the 25 - 35 range. I shot four 10 shot groups over the Chrono with the Wolf SR primed loads and SD's were 16, 16, 16, and 18. Best I have seen by far. If you can get your hands on some of these, give them a try. Also, just seat them like a WSR or similar, no crush seating with these, or you will get FTF problems. Please report your results to this thread.
 
22 Hornet

Just had to turn my Cz into a K Hornet. Always had big velocity spreads with lilgun and thought the k job would help. Didn't do any thing for the velocity variation and poi especially at long range (300 yds). Just recently tried 40 grain blitzkings and 12.2 grains of 296, velocity around 3050 fps and small spreads. Really pleased with the accuracy, last four three shot groups were under .400 with the small one going .285 ( 100 Yards). I use a Lee collet die with a spacer for neck sizing and a Redding seater. Have not seen any case lengthening in four firings. Dale
 
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