Rain,humidity and dud primers.

N

Nader

Member
I normally store my primers in the basement (?),carry about 500-1000 to a rifle match,have a hundred or two on my reloading bench in their original boxes and leave the rest in the van.If I need to reload 10 rds I prep the brass then dump out 10 primers on an RCBS tray and load them one at a time with a Sinclair tool.I normally press the primer in the pocket until I feel it touch bottom then I give it a slight little additional compression.
So I go to a rifle match last weekend and it starts to rain, all day rain-------99% humidity all day.The gun is shooting OK,my reloading area( outside pavillion) is reasonably dry( no leaks in the roof)but some mist is blowing in,nothin serious ! The first sign of trouble was when I was cleaning out my primer pockets,instead of the dusty crystalline residue that normally is cleaned out I was seeing a cake like sludge that needed wiped off the tool on my reloading towel. The next trip to the line I shoot a fouler and a couple of sighters and up on record I go boom,right where it should be, then SNAP-------nothing ? Dud, Back down to sighter,smack it again,nothin,total dud. Set it aside two more up top,boom,boom, SNAP----another dud,back down to sighter,hit it again nothin. So I go back up top and finish my group( good thing I remembered what condition I started in). then proceded to empty the rest of my loaded rounds on the sighter target experiencing one hang fire,if you ever shot a flintlock you can relate to this type of ignition delay.
So back to the reloading area,pull the bullets on the duds,dump the powder( dry),and push out the dud primers, now I see a yellow pollen like damp smeary smudge come out of the dud primer. So I resize the brass,clean out the primer pockets with my K&M tool, wipe out the pockets with a dry Q-tip,seat new primers( this time without the additional compression) and Lo and behold my ignition is back on track.
When I got home I took all my primers out of the basement and moved them to a dryer area.I'm not shure how to keep primers on hand extra dry at the next rain event ?
Just wondering if any of you guys from rainy,high humidity areas have experienced this kind of thing before. It's the first time for me.
Joel
 
Joel,

I don't know if it has anything to do with this but I've heard some people talk about Fed's not igniting lately. I didn't know if there was anthing to this or not but then I have two in the last 1000 that I have shot. I'm talking confirmed duds. Don't know what my pockets or primers looked liked as my son sized and cleaned them for me. Last night I was praticing at for the east/west and had two rounds with very different sounds and recoil. Both hit a bullet to bullet and a half low. Talk about a possible train wreck waiting to happen but the way I've been shooting lately....I was just happy to be able to til they hit low.

Hovis
 
Fwiw

Somewhere in the archives of Precision Shooting someone ran an experiment to see what was the best method to safely "disarm" primers. They tried water, machine oil, WD-40, alcohol, and a host of other fluids.
If I remember correctly, even fully submerged in water for several days, the primers still were active. WD- 40 soaked worked somewhat. There was one solvent that did work 100% of the time...I forget what it was.
Anyways, after reading this article, i never worried about my fingertips contaminating primer compounds.
 
LH,
I think(suspect) that the primer compound itself( whatever it is ?) was effected(moistened,punkified,softend) by the moisture in the air and my compression of the primer further degraded it's ability to ignite( but then what do I know, I never wrote an article for precision shooting).I don't think( surmise) that my finger tips contaminated anything.I do however doubt that primers submerged in water for several days will prove to be 100% reliable.Truth is, after my recent experience,I'd be willing to bet money that they aren't.
Joel
 
I have had

three failures with the Wolf Magnum Small Rifle primers I purchased this Spring. Fortunately I wasn't into the lands so far I pulled the bullet. I have the odd Federal Large Rifle that fails as well but it is rare.
 
Think maybe I'll steam some up in the morning, My trusty Cabela's
coffee pot won't mind Ten of them.
Actually, I think water added to a case that is already primed may
be unreliable, as air trapped in pockets may keep the water out. Primers
that are treated with water or WD before seating would make a better test.
 
Yea Bob. Test away.
I read on here or another reliable site. And from someone reliable.
That after the compound is added to the cup. The primer cup is sealed. With a very thin layer of plastic. Cups are water tight.
Back when I started reloading around 1986-87. I had some primers that got squished side ways. I used to make junk ammo.:eek:
I only used CCI primers back then.
I tried the water thing. Didn't want any accidents. Submerged for a couple days. Still active. Talked to my gun shop owner. He said WD-40 to cut through the plastic. Tried it for 2 weeks. Still active.
After that if they got squished side ways. I removed bullet, powder and primer. I was using a Lee Turret.
If it fit in the primer cup. I squished it back in the primer pocket.
Or a little squeeze with the pliers. And back in it went. Never a problem.
Then, I start Benchrest......
another long story.....
 
Joel...

Nader said:
I normally store my primers in the basement (?),carry about 500-1000 to a rifle match,have a hundred or two on my reloading bench in their original boxes and leave the rest in the van.If I need to reload 10 rds I prep the brass then dump out 10 primers on an RCBS tray and load them one at a time with a Sinclair tool.I normally press the primer in the pocket until I feel it touch bottom then I give it a slight little additional compression.
So I go to a rifle match last weekend and it starts to rain, all day rain-------99% humidity all day.The gun is shooting OK,my reloading area( outside pavillion) is reasonably dry( no leaks in the roof)but some mist is blowing in,nothin serious ! The first sign of trouble was when I was cleaning out my primer pockets,instead of the dusty crystalline residue that normally is cleaned out I was seeing a cake like sludge that needed wiped off the tool on my reloading towel. The next trip to the line I shoot a fouler and a couple of sighters and up on record I go boom,right where it should be, then SNAP-------nothing ? Dud, Back down to sighter,smack it again,nothin,total dud. Set it aside two more up top,boom,boom, SNAP----another dud,back down to sighter,hit it again nothin. So I go back up top and finish my group( good thing I remembered what condition I started in). then proceded to empty the rest of my loaded rounds on the sighter target experiencing one hang fire,if you ever shot a flintlock you can relate to this type of ignition delay.
So back to the reloading area,pull the bullets on the duds,dump the powder( dry),and push out the dud primers, now I see a yellow pollen like damp smeary smudge come out of the dud primer. So I resize the brass,clean out the primer pockets with my K&M tool, wipe out the pockets with a dry Q-tip,seat new primers( this time without the additional compression) and Lo and behold my ignition is back on track.
When I got home I took all my primers out of the basement and moved them to a dryer area.I'm not shure how to keep primers on hand extra dry at the next rain event ?
Just wondering if any of you guys from rainy,high humidity areas have experienced this kind of thing before. It's the first time for me.
Joel
Click to expand...

I would not store primers in a basement environment unless it is very, very dry. Even if no water leaks, if its a concrete foundation they sweat some in the summer months. I would store them upstairs in a solid wooden box with a bit of dessicant. I once left some rem 7.5's in my reloading box in the cellar over Winter. I had about 50% failure rate when I tried to use them. Just my experience with primers and basements. --Greg
 
I store my primers in a basement that needs the dehumidifier on
8 months a year. I also have a shower down there which also adds to the problem. Metal rusts very fast down there. The dehumidifier quit a few years ago, and the primers there still go off just fine. This certainly is not ideal,
but primers must be more reliable that that. Not all Military ammo is
sealed and The army doesn't tell the guys on the front lines to cease
fire in the rain. My coffee pot is steaming some right now.
 
Since people don't steam primers before matches, I can only say what I found. After 1 hour in a steam bath, I loaded the 10 primers. There was a yellow smear and liquid on them. I dried them with a paper towel and
a little compressed air. The first 6 did nothing so I quit then. I was burning trash, so dropped 5 in a pepsi can and pitched them in the barrel. Two of them, went off. What a waste of a half can of pepsi. They would have been
wet for a minute. I rinsed out an epty pepsi can with laquer thinner and blew it out. Dropped 5 of federals best in there . Seconds later, I heard 5 nice pops.
 
I have been storing all my reloading "stuff" in my basement since 1987. I also do all my reloading down there also. I do have a dehumidifier and have 3 large bags of dessicant in my powder & primer box. My wife likes to hang washed close down there before putting them in the drier. That is her "thing". :confused: I always used CCI primers and can not remember ever having a misfire or dud. Last fall when primers began to get scarce I bought a brick of Federal 205m, but haven't used any.

Now I am starting to worry about the Federals? Maybe I should try some of the Federals to see what happens.

It sounds like I am promoting CCIs, but I'm not. Never had any problem with them so I never used anything else.

gt40
 
The 5 that went pop were dry primers out of the box. Then I punced out the primers that did not go and wrapped them in a paper towel. Then in the
barrel. They all went bang. Some not as loud as the others. Like wooden matches on damp days, they all go, its that they can't be ignited in the normal way. No doubt, they don't all make the same pressure Anyone got a toaster oven that runs on 12 volts ?
 
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Bob,
I should have mentioned this before you threw everything in the burn barrel but; Let's say primers are effected by high humidity(I believe so, and your test seems to confirm this). Now, once the damp damage is done, can they be dried out and made to perform in a normal fashion again,or is the damage permanent ?
Do you have a toaster oven ?
Joel
 
When I started reloading in 1986. All I could get were CCI. Never had a problem. But, I was just a plinker. We would go out to the desert to shoot.
2003 had a good job. More money, life style change. Moved. Joined a club.
Maybe, I shoot more now. Not sure.
Anyway. I didn't reload for a few yrs.
Cabela's didn't have CCI primers. Bought Remington. Had 6 no fires.
Federal had problems.
CCI had problems.
Wolf had problems.
Had problems with all types of primers. And makers.:mad:
With Wolf primers. LP. 1K so far. All cups are anvil up. Everyone. :eek:
 
My guess is that when wet, the friction element in the compound no longer
will initiate the process. If they are as wet as yours were, I would wonder, because the location of that compound would be very important. Having
turned to mush, I would doubt it. Up to the point where they become
mush( 100% water) I think they could be saved.Simply carrying them in
a wide mouthed container might be ok, with desicant to take away the moisture, but how long does it take primers to adopt that moisture ?
Once you open the lid kinda thing----
 
I read that in the assembly of primers, The compound is spread with a spatula and then foil is added, then the anvil. This being a paste or
something similiar ,it is then placed in an oven for drying. Obviously
this would be done on trays, keeping the cup upright, so the compound
does not leave and it is concentrated under the anvil. If the compound
is degraded by whatever amount of moisture to such a degree that it is now
in the little tray that the primer is sold in, they can't be saved I.M.O.
Extracting the moisture other wise should make them ok. I would think
some southern shooters could tell us more about this.
I'll dig out some more of Federals best and after drownding them, I'll
dry them out , and shoot them just for fun------------
 
Drownded primers

Well, after 1 hour in water(submerged) but kept anvil up, there was still a tiny bubble that would appear. Picked them out of the pond and removed
what water I could with q-tips. It will take a few days. I had placed them in
a wide mouth lid and where each primer was located, a circle developed.
wiping that out on a paper towel, showed this to be yellow. Since that was the same color as the smear that came out of the primers, I surmise that
some compound floated over the cups. They look fine in spite of that.
 
One could not find any better friends than those you'll meet in BenchRest !
Do you guys have any extra money that you could loan me ?
Joel
 
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