Questions about ar class

M

M. E. Bandy

Guest
I am happy to see this new trial class, although I may have missed something.
1. The ejection of brass is violent on these guns. If you are sitting on the bench to the right of the AR. you take hits of hot brass on hitting your gun, scope, eye glasses, ear muffs and not the least - a surprize of a hot piece of brass down the back of your neck. So much forconcentration.
2. Muzzle blast will damn near blow your gun off the bench with a ,308 and give it a good shake with a .223. Boy, do not double with it. I suspect that this is due to the various devices that are screwed on the end of the barrel. The newer versions of the stainless barrels with no screwed on device are not quite as bad.
I think these two items need to be addressed, will be interested to see what the forum has to say about it.

MEB
 
M e

If you look at the thread below this one, (AR Class), you will see a post by the IBS President, Jeff Stover, that furnishes a link that will answer your concerns.

The only thing that can be on the barrel is a legal IBS Tuner. Also, a brass catcher MUST be used.

There is no limit on the size of the case you are allowed to use in 100-200 yard Benchrest. If a shooter chooses to use a 308, or a 300 Win Mag, that is his choice. Of course, the reality of the game dictates small cases with minimum blast and recoil.

HBR Shooters use cases that have considerable recoil and blast, and they don't complain about their neighbors.

So, it would seem that shooting next to a .223 AR ar a Registered Match would be no different than shooting next to a regular Benchrest Rifle..........jackie
 
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M. E. Bandy said:
I am happy to see this new trial class, although I may have missed something.
1. The ejection of brass is violent on these guns. If you are sitting on the bench to the right of the AR. you take hits of hot brass on hitting your gun, scope, eye glasses, ear muffs and not the least - a surprize of a hot piece of brass down the back of your neck. So much forconcentration.
2. Muzzle blast will damn near blow your gun off the bench with a ,308 and give it a good shake with a .223. Boy, do not double with it. I suspect that this is due to the various devices that are screwed on the end of the barrel. The newer versions of the stainless barrels with no screwed on device are not quite as bad.
I think these two items need to be addressed, will be interested to see what the forum has to say about it.

MEB
Click to expand...

My .308 factory bolt rifle "wakes" everybody up on the line. The AR will likely be a welcome respite.

We talked about it at work today and hot brass down the collar doesn't cut it. The brass catchers are a plus.
 
Mr. Bandy it's all part of the game. Just like on the battlefield. :eek:
Only you are not receiving incoming.......
Last Sunday. I was shooting next to a respected member of the Benchrest Community. He was shooting a .260 Rem. I think. Sounded like a BMG .50 M2.
Browning Machine Gun .50 cal. M2. WE get those in MI.

MI is a Class III state. And I have seen a number of Full Autos at my club. :)

Any who. I did not mind.
Last Oct at WWCCA I was sitting next to Jeff Gaidos.
And he was sitting next to Bill Gammons.
We were trying to not cross fire. On each other. The winds were sorta predicable.
Being the new guy. I would try to go first. And watch the show.
Bill and Jeff put on a good show. I learned a lot.
Mainly, just shoot and not worry about the next guy.
Jeff had won the 2 gun in 3 out of 4 tournaments. And I think he was second in the 4th.
Jeff has a chauffeur. Maybe you have heard of him. Jack Neary.
I sat next to Jack at my first tournament. WWCCA.
And at the Super Shoot. He never had a complaint. Some of his flags were not up to par. He never said a word.
I was on a bench with left hand flags. :mad:
So I just adjusted. And used Jack's. What a gentleman......
 
Ejection from an AR, at least in .223/5.56 can be calmed WAY down while retaining reliable ejection by shortening the ejector spring to 0.800" from the usual 1"+. Read this in Zediker's latest book on AR's and gave it a try. Cases pop out and if a towel is on the bench top and/or a "benchsnake" from Edgewood (Sinclair #04-7585) or something similar is used it's likely that all the ejected cases will stay on the shooter's bench top.
 
It'll be interesting to see how many opt to feed from the magazine, and how many go for SLEDs as used in NRA High Power Rifle matches.

Some people claim they can tell a difference between the first shot out of a magazine and subsequent rounds by the point of impact on the target (i.e. the one 'flyer' out of the group), ostensibly due to the difference in the way the action is cycling. Sounds good, but I've never tested it.

If people do go for SLEDs, the brass catchers that fit closely over the ejection port are going to be a problem, as they make it difficult to get your hand into the ejection port to single-load rounds.

The option I've used that works pretty well all the way around is to go buy a handtowel (black, of course - one because it hides burnt carbon and two because... its a 'black' rifle ;) ) and drape it over the scope turrets and ejection port (if your scope is really high it might fit under the scope tube). Spent brass comes out, hits the towel, and goes straight down onto the bench. Put a terry cloth towel there, and it ain't going anywhere. Pick 'em up after done shooting - and they've had a chance to cool off a bit! With a normal 'energetic' ejection system I haven't had any problems with rounds bouncing back into the ejection port and getting munched by the bolt - which I have had happen with commercial brass catchers.

YMMV,

Monte
 
i agree with both of the above posters:
trim the ejector spring...to match your load., and

"the towel"...is a great inexpensive brass catcher


mike in co

make an ejector removal tool by cutting a case to about 1/4", put the case head and the bolt in a vise...end to end. compresses the spring, remove the pin, slowly open the vise to catch the ejector and spring. i suggest you buy a couple of extra springs....they can fly!
 
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milanuk said:
If people do go for SLEDs, the brass catchers that fit closely over the ejection port are going to be a problem, as they make it difficult to get your hand into the ejection port to single-load rounds.
Click to expand...

For single-round feeding, my preference is to remove the ejector completely. The gas system can run normally, and as long as there's a SLED or just an empty magazine, the bolt extracts the spent brass and locks back on each shot. You can then easily reach in and remove the brass, put it back in the box, and get a fresh round. Load, drop the bolt, enjoy.
 
So

The object is to take an AR, remove everything that makes it a "AR", and compete.

If you take out the ejector, do feed from a magazine, and have to operate the bolt, what you have is turn bolt rifle with multiple locking luggs.

What's next, figuring out a way to mount the upper reciever section in a Scoville Stock, modifying the reciever to accept a threaded barrel, etc.

I thought the object was to entice AR shooters, using real AR's. Not cobbled together contraptions that retain just enough of the originol design pieces to satisfy the rules.

You want to kill this before it ever takes off. Just have a bunch of shooters with real AR's walk away because a few enterprising souls take the spirit of the rules and bend them to the extent that what they are left with is a Benchrest Rifle with a different bolt.

Most will accept that the best way to make an AR shoot like a real Benchrest Rifle is to remove as much of the stuff that defines an "AR". Is this what the IBS had in mind???........jackie
 
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jackie,
the highpower shooters(200/300/600 normal) shoot from a mag sometimes, but from singles for the 600...typically using a SLED. so thats a "normal" in competition ar.

i have never pulled the ejector to shoot single.

there are two very obvious things.....ar's are a very tuneable/changeable platform and there are a ton of ar's out there.

if one thinks the ar in the pic is the "std" of what has been sold in the last year, they are in for a big suprise. to my knowledge, only high power(nra/cmp/dcm) is the only place "stock" looking rifles are shot in competition and even those guys have the "match" rifle catagory...refered to as "space" guns...some are bolt, some are gas, some are bolt operated gas conversions.

its a good thing there is a year or two to figure it out.

mike in co
 
questions on ar class

Has anyone tried cutting down the ejection spring, so the cases won't be thrown a long distance?
It worked on some bolt rifles.
 
It's a pretty common 'fix' in NRA High Power Rifle to 'neuter' the ejector spring by clipping a coil or two. Generally what happens is instead of flinging the cases out @ 3-4 o'clock and pelting the shooter (and/or his scorer) next to you about the head and shoulders with hot brass, the cases out of a gun with a neutered ejector go forward @ about 1-1:30. You have to go forward of the line after its been made safe between relays to police your brass, but it's usually easier than digging them out of your neighbor's shooting coat and mat ;)

Of course there are the guys who show up for a Prone match wearing shorts, and then yip n howl when a new shooter (with an un-neutered ejector) peppers their legs with hot brass. Usually the match directors response is something along the lines of "...it *is* an outdoor sport... dress accordingly or suffer the consequences"... followed by a discreet suggestion to the newbie on how to fix things before the next match ;)

I haven't tried cutting more than just enough to re-direct the brass flight path; I've heard that it can cause problems with the brass either not coming out all the way, or bouncing back off the deflector teat into the port. Neither of which is something I'm in a real hurry to find out about first hand.
 
FBecigneul said:
"You have to go forward of the line after its been made safe between relays to police your brass, but it's usually easier than digging them out of your neighbor's shooting coat and mat".
A no-no in BR matches as we know them now and probably for some time to come. They'd have to stay out there until the end of the aggregate under the present rules.
Click to expand...

francis...
not an issue in ar br,,cause brass catchers are required....
( but common in high power)

mike in co
 
Mike,

There has been a little bit of discussion elsewhere on what exactly would constitute a 'brass catcher' - a commercial contraption fixed to the rifle (unfortunately blocks the ejection port pretty effectively for those wanting to single load), something like the towel mentioned earlier, or possibly wording it more along the lines of 'brass cannot leave the competitors bench' which would open up things like a bench mounted net or box to trap cases but not be attached to the rifle.

After Francis explained a bit of the how-n-why of the relay changing process and bench rotation common to BR... it makes more sense to me why just neutering the ejector to throw 'em @ 1-2 oclock wouldn't help very much.

Monte
 
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