Question on barrel cleaning
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The above, in all of the sanctioned matches I have shot over the last 3 years, is mostly true. Cleaning threads are a dime a dozen, but there are new guys coming all the time (hopefully), and a revisit now and again is relevant.
The best advise I have heard on the forums and from top ranked shooters in both ARA and IR50/50 at matches is this, 'Let the barrel tell you what it needs.' Not all barrels respond the same to cleaning, or variations of cleaning.
My 10.5 rifle with a Shilen ratchet only needs a couple of wet patches then a dry patch to shoot well over several cards. I do this every card. Going to the brush (I only use brass wound bronze phosphor brushes) only occurs after 3-4 cards. My Unlimited ARA rifle.....also a Shilen ratchet, is MUCH different. If I only wet/dry patch it in between cards, it falls off during the second card......noticeably! I clean the crap out of that barrel in between cards, including brushing. It has 'told' me that is what it likes from target performance.
Cleaning is just like anything else in RFBR. One must test and tune to what the rifle/barrel likes. That takes time and experimentation. There are no definitive answers to some of these questions, it is totally each rifle/barrel dependent. There is not just 'one fits all' answer. Most guys do some kind of bore cleaning at the higher levels of RFBR though, every card. I am no expert either......just what I have observed after about 28 sanctioned matches, both IR and ARA, since May.
bob finger
New member
Every barrel is different. Only you and the barrel can determine what it needs.
The only hard and fast rule is clean before accuracy falls off. Some even clean in the middle of a card when they feel it necessary. Todd Wooten is famous for this, and he ain't no slouch when it comes to being in the winners circle.
The next almost hard and fast rule is you can easily overclean a barrel. When this happens it can take a box or more to bring it back to what it should be. A rim fire barrel needs wax to shoot well. If you overclean and remove too much wax then you are in big trouble if it happens during a match.
Very few go more than a single card without patching the barrel. I have one barrel that can go two cards without cleaning, but it gets dicey towards the end if I shoot lots of sighters. bob
The only hard and fast rule is clean before accuracy falls off. Some even clean in the middle of a card when they feel it necessary. Todd Wooten is famous for this, and he ain't no slouch when it comes to being in the winners circle.
The next almost hard and fast rule is you can easily overclean a barrel. When this happens it can take a box or more to bring it back to what it should be. A rim fire barrel needs wax to shoot well. If you overclean and remove too much wax then you are in big trouble if it happens during a match.
Very few go more than a single card without patching the barrel. I have one barrel that can go two cards without cleaning, but it gets dicey towards the end if I shoot lots of sighters. bob
Thanks for the input...
Thanks for all the input. Sounds a lot like the center fire bench rest game I'm involved with. I just thought that since rimfire barrels are not subject to the high plasma heat center fire barrels are, that the cleaning routine might be different. But...the high demands that bench rest competition requires regardless of caliber, demands a high standard of cleaning not required in just occasional for fun shoots.
Thanks for all the input. Sounds a lot like the center fire bench rest game I'm involved with. I just thought that since rimfire barrels are not subject to the high plasma heat center fire barrels are, that the cleaning routine might be different. But...the high demands that bench rest competition requires regardless of caliber, demands a high standard of cleaning not required in just occasional for fun shoots.
Interesting. Splain to me why, for instance, one of the single best rimfire benchrest gunsmiths, a maker of multiple world record rifles, brushes his bore with solvent every single card and has done so with multiple barrel brands for customer installed barrels, and uniformly, is back on target in 4-5 shots max? In other words, he goes right down to clean metal every time, without exception,
bob finger
New member
Tim: I cannot explain it. I have more than a few barrels Gordon has prepared, and I treat them in a similar fashion.
You want to remove the wax all the way down to bare metal I suspect we will have to work much harder at it than you describe. bob
You want to remove the wax all the way down to bare metal I suspect we will have to work much harder at it than you describe. bob
No, it is rather easy, purpose made rimfire solvent and a brass brush....pretty much clean metal.
I read way toomany people use all manner of solvents to clean.....most desighne for centerfire. Isuspect all work to some degree, none designed for wax based lubes....pretty simple really.
You assume it takes many, many rounds to lay downn enough wax in the bore.....it takes 5-6.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
One of the top shooters
In IR-50 told me he cleaned very little, actually, more than one has told me that. I have come around to thinking sort of like Bob, each barrel seems to like something a little different. I do think cleaning barrels does hasten their demise, generally, even simply brushing and patching them.
I have gone from being extreme with what I use to using, to like Tim sez, solvents designed for Rimfire Rifles. It does make a difference. I even found the Rimfire solvent or the solvent I'm currently using works as well of CF rifle barrels as it does on RF. More Specifically, Patch Out is the best solvent I have found to date to clean rifle bores with. Rather or not it was designed for RF, I do not know but it do work exceptionally well. I sorta backed into it when I discovered a Lead remover the same supplier sells. He suggested the lead remover be removed with his solvent called Patch Out. All my draconian cleaning method to remove the lead from the two old Rock Creeks = Lead Magnet barrels I have have ceased.
What is known is lead does stick to most barrels. I had one for awhile that didn't seem to but it has now begun to attract the lead. The Wipe Out's, No Lead does relatively quickly and easily take the lead out. It is a clear liquid that turns lead to orange in color and allows it to be patched out. Apparently there is a concern of it being a bit caustic, ergo the suggestion to use the Patch Out to remove it. As I've said, best two solvents I've found, to date and I've got a shelf full of stuff that didn't really make it happen. Some of it better than others but this stuff is head and shoulders above.
I think if more people offered up what they have discovered to work well, by product name, we would all be a lot better off for it. If we all shared more specifics and let our ability to read the conditions determine who wins, vs trying to hold back things that might make life easier for everyone, more people might find us to be a lot more welcoming. Concentrate more on just being a better shooter than trying to find an edge to use to dominate, might make us a more pleasant group to be around. Sport isn't about winning at all costs, it's about being a Sportsman, particularly in the sports that don't give one a monetary reward. I think we are in trouble and if we don't find a way to bring new people in, we're done. The Sport is bigger than anyone or any one of it's parts.
Pete
In IR-50 told me he cleaned very little, actually, more than one has told me that. I have come around to thinking sort of like Bob, each barrel seems to like something a little different. I do think cleaning barrels does hasten their demise, generally, even simply brushing and patching them.
I have gone from being extreme with what I use to using, to like Tim sez, solvents designed for Rimfire Rifles. It does make a difference. I even found the Rimfire solvent or the solvent I'm currently using works as well of CF rifle barrels as it does on RF. More Specifically, Patch Out is the best solvent I have found to date to clean rifle bores with. Rather or not it was designed for RF, I do not know but it do work exceptionally well. I sorta backed into it when I discovered a Lead remover the same supplier sells. He suggested the lead remover be removed with his solvent called Patch Out. All my draconian cleaning method to remove the lead from the two old Rock Creeks = Lead Magnet barrels I have have ceased.
What is known is lead does stick to most barrels. I had one for awhile that didn't seem to but it has now begun to attract the lead. The Wipe Out's, No Lead does relatively quickly and easily take the lead out. It is a clear liquid that turns lead to orange in color and allows it to be patched out. Apparently there is a concern of it being a bit caustic, ergo the suggestion to use the Patch Out to remove it. As I've said, best two solvents I've found, to date and I've got a shelf full of stuff that didn't really make it happen. Some of it better than others but this stuff is head and shoulders above.
I think if more people offered up what they have discovered to work well, by product name, we would all be a lot better off for it. If we all shared more specifics and let our ability to read the conditions determine who wins, vs trying to hold back things that might make life easier for everyone, more people might find us to be a lot more welcoming. Concentrate more on just being a better shooter than trying to find an edge to use to dominate, might make us a more pleasant group to be around. Sport isn't about winning at all costs, it's about being a Sportsman, particularly in the sports that don't give one a monetary reward. I think we are in trouble and if we don't find a way to bring new people in, we're done. The Sport is bigger than anyone or any one of it's parts.
Pete
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bob finger
New member
Pete: In my time spent in competitive shooting I have never and I mean never had a shooter not answer a question that was asked with kindness or honest curiosity.
We do not shoot on our own most of the time but as a group. Hard to keep secrets in a group setting. Me thinks your shot against us is out of order.
Use what you like. I mix 1/2 rimfire blend and 1/2 MMO, ( Marvel Mystery Oil) with a few drops of Kroil thrown in for good measure in my rim fire barrels, both rifle and pistol. bob
We do not shoot on our own most of the time but as a group. Hard to keep secrets in a group setting. Me thinks your shot against us is out of order.
Use what you like. I mix 1/2 rimfire blend and 1/2 MMO, ( Marvel Mystery Oil) with a few drops of Kroil thrown in for good measure in my rim fire barrels, both rifle and pistol. bob
I think George Donovan has some experience shooting. Since I started shooting ive attend many matches where George shot. At every single match I’ve been set up in within a couple feet of George.
He cleans after every card. Tuner included. His solution is his business. But it is nothing out of the ordinary
Seldom brushes.
There is another consistent winner that runs one wet patch and two dry patches. Only worries about the carbon ring when rounds become difficult to chamber.
Another uses “reds” homemade solution (he shot at least five 2500’s this year)
Another major tournament winner brushes after every card.
I’ve seen none use Center fire cleaners.
He cleans after every card. Tuner included. His solution is his business. But it is nothing out of the ordinary
Seldom brushes.
There is another consistent winner that runs one wet patch and two dry patches. Only worries about the carbon ring when rounds become difficult to chamber.
Another uses “reds” homemade solution (he shot at least five 2500’s this year)
Another major tournament winner brushes after every card.
I’ve seen none use Center fire cleaners.
Clean after every card. Brush after 3-4 matches.
Solution I use is a mixture of 50% each Shooters Choice and Kroil.
At the end of a card I run a patch with above solution and let it soak as I change out card.
Then I run 2 dry patches.
Every other card I run a patch back and forth in the chamber, about 20 strokes with above solution then clean as described.
When I brush the barrel I pull a new bronze brush using said solution approx. 3 times one direction. Then a wet patch and 2 dry patches.
That’s it and been shooting the same barrel for 8 years now and it’s holding up.
Les
Solution I use is a mixture of 50% each Shooters Choice and Kroil.
At the end of a card I run a patch with above solution and let it soak as I change out card.
Then I run 2 dry patches.
Every other card I run a patch back and forth in the chamber, about 20 strokes with above solution then clean as described.
When I brush the barrel I pull a new bronze brush using said solution approx. 3 times one direction. Then a wet patch and 2 dry patches.
That’s it and been shooting the same barrel for 8 years now and it’s holding up.
Les
Not really very compliccated is it ?
No it is not. Whatever works for you is the proper cleaning method.
Interestingly enough go read Lilja’s rimfire cleaning recommendations.
http://riflebarrels.com/support/22-rimfire-maintenance/