Question about barrel contours & Brunos . . .

C

Charles E

curmudgeon
What I get for trying to scheme & plan on Memorial day . . .

Does anybody know what Bruno's means by "MED" for Krieger barrels? Krieger doesn't list a "MED" except maybe the "#3 medium sporter", which of course, I don't want.

And for Shilen, Bruno's lists a "MV" -- but Shilen doesn't show a MV. They show a "#7 Standard Varmint," in between the weight of a #7 Light Varmint and a #7 Heavy Varmint.

Thanks in advance for any help before I try to call Bruno's & get all tongue-tied (and I imagine Lester himself is still in transit).
 
Charles

The medium taper Krieger that Lester sells is sort of his own creation. The straight of the chamber end is about 1.210, as oppsed to a 1.200 for a true LV, or a 1.250 for a true HV.
The profile on the medium will also taper a little more.
I tried to get a few true LV's from Lester last week, and all he had was the medium taper barrels. That seems to be his favorite, so he stocks a lot od them.
I have never quite understood just what the purpose of the 'medium' is. .....jackie
 
Charles

First off, you don't have to wait to talk to Lester. Amy and the gentleman who sometimes answers the phone are both very competent and can answer just about any question you may have.

That being said: I have a "Med." Krieger blank from Bruno's. It measures 1.200" straight for 3.850" then tapers to .875 at the muzzle. O.A.L is 29". Weighs 6# 13 oz. Similar to a L.V. taper.

Hope this helps.

John
 
Jackie
You're correct. Tried to edit my post but it wouldn't go through.
John
 
I have never quite understood just what the purpose of the 'medium' is
Click to expand...
Jackie, it sounds like maybe Lester is signing on to the "Hunter is often stiffer" school -- depending on barrel length. I thought I discovered that by myself, but Randy Robinett just chuckled & once again I'm another follower.

Looks like the MV is between stiffnesses of the LV & the Hunter for a short barrel.

Thanks for the information,

Charles
 
I just bought a few Kreiger MED tapers from Lester, They are 29" long, 1.210" for about 3 3-1/2" then a straight taper to 0.870" at the muzzle.
 
Do we really know that beyond a given point, stiffer is better? Could it be that there is stiff enough, and beyond that, weight could better used for other things?
 
Boyd Allen said:
Do we really know that beyond a given point, stiffer is better? Could it be that there is stiff enough, and beyond that, weight could better used for other things?
Click to expand...
No, I don't think we know that. What we do know is that whatever will replace "stiffer is better" hasn't yet made itself known; hasn't yet proved itself.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Do we really know that beyond a given point, stiffer is better? Could it be that there is stiff enough, and beyond that, weight could better used for other things?
Click to expand...

Lets assume some things about short and stiff! No, not Viagra.
A 1.25" barrel, 18" long weighs 5# 12 oz.
Eighteen inches is as short as can be legally used, 5# 12 oz is too heavy for a LV with most new scopes, so figure a 1.2" diameter-now we are down to 5# 5 oz. Most guns will take that.

Now figure the 6PPC and V133. Our normal 68 grain bullet and 31.5 grains of V133 and 22 inch long barrel the velocity is approx 3400 and the pressure is about 73,000 PSI.

With the barrel at 18" the velocity drops to about 3280 and the pressure is still above 73,000 PSI. It might be worth trying. I'd start at about 18.125 though, just in case of a refreshing.

Now, how to add a tuner.......
 
The barrel that I put Jackie's tuner on was stepped at the same time that the tuner was fitted, removing approx. 5.25 oz., and undoubtedly making it less stiff. After the tuner was adjusted, and the best place for the Deresonator found, the barrel shot better than it had before. Maybe its time to rethink the unproven axiom(That'll bring 'em to their feet.) that stiffer is always better. BTW I turned the shank of a HBR taper 6PPC barrel down to around .120 a while back...didn't know that I had duplicated Lester's taper, just wanted to redistribute the weight to the back of the rifle. I had gone off of a stiffer is better wild goose chase. It shoots just fine. Heck, I may put some steps in it and really mess it up.
 
Lighter barrels...

Sorry for the intrusion, but since I always think that a bit of information sharing across disciplines is useful, I'll chime in a bit.

Take a look at the Palma profiles on Krieger or Bartlein's sites (there are three Palma contours - heavy, medium, light). Almost all long-range prone shooters now use these contours, regardless of caliber. Fifteen years ago, we all shot heavy profiles (Krieger's MTU profile, for instance) and we were convinced you couldn't go lighter. When the Palma game became a bit more popular and we had to meet the international 6 kg. rule (later increased to 6.5 kg) the barrels went to the now familiar Medium Palma profile. Amazingly (or not) they shot just as well and were more comfortable (we have to hold the darn things).

All I'm saying is that there is probably a "stiff enough" point and it's probably lighter than we're used to shooting.

German Salazar
 
GermanS1 said:
Sorry for the intrusion, but since I always think that a bit of information sharing across disciplines is useful, I'll chime in a bit.

Take a look at the Palma profiles on Krieger or Bartlein's sites (there are three Palma contours - heavy, medium, light).
All I'm saying is that there is probably a "stiff enough" point and it's probably lighter than we're used to shooting. As in rimfire, the slimmer profile of the Plama taper seems to make the tuner more responsive.

German Salazar
Click to expand...

German, as followup to your thoughts, for the 2008 600 yard season I chambered a Krieger Palma taper on my LG and put a Fudd Centerfire tuner on it. Shoots very well and I have just about tuned out the vertical that is a problem at long range--at least on that gun/barrel/cartridge combination. As in rimfire, the slimmer taper of the Palma taper seems to make the tuner more responsive.

I don't really have a good place to work on the 600 yard vertical except at the 600 yard match.
 
It's OK to go off-topic. Jackie answered the question -- about Kreiger anyway -- in post #2.

As far as a generally better taper goes (varying from "stiffer is better"), I'd think a sort of silhouette taper better than even a Palma. Worked for me -- sample size one, which proves nothing. This is a long-range rifle, but I used 1.250 at the breech for six inches, 45-degres down to 0.875 for all but the last four inches, where we went 45-degrees UP to 1.00. BTW, the 6-inches at the rear was for a barrel block, not because I think all that mass at the back is needed.

Only problem adapting this to short range would be the final muzzle diameter would have to be within the barrel taper rule, so the absolute diameter will depend on how long a barrel you want.
 
When Varmint Al was posting his computer simulations of various barrel and barrel and tuner combinations, along with the graph of where the barrel was pointing, on a 100 yd. target vs. time, the same sort of bullet exit timing was achieved by thinning down a barrel in the center as adding a heavy tuner, or using a 24" barrel of a standard taper. I asked him about this particular contour because I remembered an article that Merrill Martin had written, where he did something similar on a rimfire. Maybe a slight "hinge point" in the middle would allow a lighter tuner which would in turn be better for rifle balance...just a thought.
 
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