Primer Questions

N

NesikaPPC

New member
This may seem a little basic, but I haven't seen one of these before and I need someone to tell me what is going on with these primers.

First off, I did not do these reloads. Therefore, I do not know any brands of the primers in question, but there looks to be two different primers based on color.

The two 'silver' primers appear to have the same indention. The two 'gold' primers are the odd balls.

If anyone can tell me what they think happened, I'd appreciate it.

Robert
 

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Primer Questions.

I don't quite understand your question as to color and types of primers.
Remington primers are gold colored at times also Wolf primers were that gold color.
Most of the standard primers I have used over the years were that silver color.
Also Some Remingtons were copper color.
 
Sorry, I was a little unclear. The primer on the left is incredibly indented, the second indented, the third and fourth are indented, but it looks like the primer formed outward around the firing pin. If you need a better photo, I may be able to take a higher res photo and email.

Thanks
 
What you are seeing is differences in pressure and in primer cup hardness..... the deeply indented ones indicate a light load whereas the "flattened" and "cratered" ones are showing that the load was quite "hot" or developed high pressure.

al
 
Or maybe the ones with the deeper fireing pin indentation had a bit more head space and the primer backed out a little bit.

Don
 
Gunner223 said:
Or maybe the ones with the deeper fireing pin indentation had a bit more head space and the primer backed out a little bit.

Don
Click to expand...

I would lean toward something like this. It's hard to tell from the photo but high pressure normally show additional signs on the case, like the ejector hole or slot marks. I have seen this also caused from a improperly sized firing pin to firing pin hole.
Was the bolt lift hard? Did all of the rounds perform the same when fired? As was there a noticeable difference in recoil?
 
I would disagree.

The outcome of excessive headspace is for the first motion to be the primer backing out as the charge expands, the primer head thus enlarges in the area that is unsupported by the primer pocket followed by the case stretching back, the consequence of which is that the primer rivets to fill more of the pocket than is normal and gives the appearance of excess pressure. Man, do I know this after bumping the shoulder back too far on a batch of brass.

The ones with the silver primer could well be showing the effects of excess headspace, as well as cratering from a relatively overlarge firing pin hole.
 
Not only that, when firing a rifle with excessive headspace the primer CAN'T indent deeply because it not only moves out of the way on the strike, but when it stops it's so far forward that the indent has to be shallow, the firing pin simply can't indent it deeply. I was going to just leave this point alone because experiences vary, but I've never seen an instance where excess headspace results in deep primer indents...... and I've seen a number of them because I have fired many combinations with excessive headspace. Not only have I run acros't the situation multiple times but I once spent a bunch of time trying to establish that excess headspace was "dangerous" because I'd been taught that.

I was wrong.

Excess headspace isn't dangerous in and of itself. It's only when a person CONTINUES to size with excessive headspace that it can lead to casehead separations. Or, in the case of old loads, like 30-50yr-old shells, one can get separations from a single firing of the old, brittle brass.

I guess if someone else can explain exactly HOW excess headspace can lead to deep indents I'll buy in.....

al
 
My 2 cents worth, having noticed similar differences in primers with similar loads is that some primers have cups that are thicker and/or harder than others and don't flatten out as much when fired with loads of apparently similar pressures. Rem 7.5's, CCI 450's and BR 4's tend to flatten less than WSR's, CCI 400's. and Fed 205's in my experience. If these cases were fired in a semi-auto very flat primers can result with WSR's while the others look like they've been fired with very light loads. The same in bolt rifles with, uh, warm, loads. The difference between the first and second primers could be due to any number of things, assuming that all the rounds were fired in the same rifle. From their appearance I'd nearly be willing to bet that they're Rem 7.5's, and the differences in firing pin indentation could be due to the seating of the primers, tightness of the primer pockets, or likely several other things.

More information on the loads, rifle they were fired in, and primer types would be helpful.
 
Robert the most logical explanation by looking at your picks is that the cases with the gold primers where loaded lighter than the other two. best thing to do if you load for the 30-06 is load up your own loads and fire them and then ck to see what the primers look like?. I don't think that the gold primer cases where loaded with the same load as the other two cases. You did mention that you did not do these reloads. always be courteous firing some one elses reloads,unless you know that the person that did the reloads knows what he is doing. Gabe
 
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