A
AVanGorder
Guest
I was just looking at all the pictures on the IBS website and I saw a gallery called Powder Puff. The pictures are mostly ladies, so I can guess, but would someone clue me in.
Adrian
Adrian
A
AVanGorder
Guest
... when you have friends like these.
After match 3, maybe 4, I'll make sure to point out that she is an X or two above you.
See ya on Sunday
Yeah, what he said!Ouch.....
Keep laughing, Dave. But, who's going to be laughing when she opens up a can of whoop @$$ on you this weekend...Adrain,
Based on how you and your bride have been shooting lately, YOU QUALIFY!!!
If you want I'll take a picture of you and get it submitted.
After match 3, maybe 4, I'll make sure to point out that she is an X or two above you. See ya on Sunday
David Apple
Member
Keep laughing, Dave. But, who's going to be laughing when she opens up a can of whoop @$$ on you this weekend...
Not laughing. She is shooting great. Lots of great shooting going on lately.
Not laughing. She is shooting great. Lots of great shooting going on lately.
L
longrange223
Guest
hope she can come to wv next weekend even if you can't make it,if she needs help cleaning i'd be happy to help her out,she'd be a pleasant addition compared to what else we're gonna have to look at!!!!
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Yes, she has been shooting well, thanks! I just hope to keep up with her this weekend. She might shoot two guns, we'll see.
Adrian
David Apple
Member
She might shoot two guns said:I want you to know that is a VERY controversial topic!!!
A
AVanGorder
Guest
I want you to know that is a VERY controversial topic!!!
I've read the rule book more than once.
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Adrian it is an agenda item to be voted on in January
The original is posted somewhere here in an earlier thread , It seeks to end shooting a second gun in VFS class or at least making you specify before the match which rifle counts. Particularly objectionable seems to be shooting 2 HV or 2 LV
I will preface this post by saying that I am still on the fence as to the agenda item. As I read the agenda item, it seeks to keep shooters from shooting two (or more) guns of the same class simply to increase the odds of winning. The current rules allow a shooter to shoot as many guns as he or she wishes so long as there is available space at the match. What's to keep me (or anyone else) from showing up at the Bud Pryor next spring with 5 rifles and asking Dick if he could make room for me to shoot them all. Now I know Dick wouldn't reserve 5 spots for me, but there are always last minute dropouts, and a will to fill all the available slots. I don't think I would make too many friends if I did such a thing.
Last year only a few shooters campaigned multiple guns, this year its a few more. Before long, you won't be able to compete in the SOY without shooting multiple guns. Heck, it's pretty tough right now. Fact is that this is the direction that VFS is heading, good or bad. It's is up to the members that show up at the annual meeting whether it will continue on the same path or not. As I stated in the beginning of this post, I still don't know where I stand on this item. One part of me thinks that we shouldn't put limitations on shooters wishing to do what they love to do...the other side wonders if it's right to put this additional burden on shooters who may not be able to devote the time or money to be competitive.
Last year only a few shooters campaigned multiple guns, this year its a few more. Before long, you won't be able to compete in the SOY without shooting multiple guns. Heck, it's pretty tough right now. Fact is that this is the direction that VFS is heading, good or bad. It's is up to the members that show up at the annual meeting whether it will continue on the same path or not. As I stated in the beginning of this post, I still don't know where I stand on this item. One part of me thinks that we shouldn't put limitations on shooters wishing to do what they love to do...the other side wonders if it's right to put this additional burden on shooters who may not be able to devote the time or money to be competitive.
David Apple
Member
whats next??/
Well, all the culprits who shoot 2 guns have been identified. Who are those who think shooting more than 1 gun is horriffic???
Why deny the IBS and the clubs more revenure from more registered guns? Why deny the shooter more shooting opportunites?
What will be legislated next??? The shooter can have only one barrel per season??? That would make it fair.
Well, all the culprits who shoot 2 guns have been identified. Who are those who think shooting more than 1 gun is horriffic???
Why deny the IBS and the clubs more revenure from more registered guns? Why deny the shooter more shooting opportunites?
What will be legislated next??? The shooter can have only one barrel per season??? That would make it fair.
Well, we could add a lotto element. A shooter could enter & pay for as many guns in one class as he/she wished, but couldn't specify specify relays (if different classes, you can get separate relays). You just draw fresh for each gun. So if you enter two HV guns, but draw, say, relay one for both, you "lose the lotto" -- With the new gotta-stay-at-your-bench rule, you just couldn't shoot two guns, different bench assignments, on the same relay.
Twenty five signatures got the agenda item to the floor...obviously there is a following that doesn't like the current rule.
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Let's ask ourselves one question - Will this proposed new limitation benefit the entire sport and the shooting community at large, or will it benefit only some with their own agenda?
Adrian
Adrian
Wayne Shaw
Active member
Here's my gripe about shooting more than one gun.
While shooting a HV and a LV is somewhat the same thing, they're are differences. Just like shooting a VFS and a 6X.
But, I think of the people that struggle to keep one gun supplied with a good barrel, powder, bullets and primers, then get to a match only to be shooting against a few that are doubling or even tripling their chances of winning. Where is that fair? Not only is it statistically at their advantage, but the added bench time, shooting the conditions gives a marked advantage.
This shouldn't be a "money" game, or a "double-up" game. When one goes to a match, he/she should know they are competing equally against other shooters.
While shooting a HV and a LV is somewhat the same thing, they're are differences. Just like shooting a VFS and a 6X.
But, I think of the people that struggle to keep one gun supplied with a good barrel, powder, bullets and primers, then get to a match only to be shooting against a few that are doubling or even tripling their chances of winning. Where is that fair? Not only is it statistically at their advantage, but the added bench time, shooting the conditions gives a marked advantage.
This shouldn't be a "money" game, or a "double-up" game. When one goes to a match, he/she should know they are competing equally against other shooters.
T
TBonz
Guest
Maybe the 25 just felt the topic should at least have an opportunity to be discussed...
I certainly would hope that people wouldn't be prevented from shooting more than one rifle in separate classes. I can certainly see where some would be concerned over multiple rifles in a single class, but I'm not sure if it is worth a rule to prevent it.
It would be nice to see some statistics on how much impact those shooting two rifles in the same class had on match results and / or SOY points. How often do others loose out on points (or awards) because someone shoots 2 HV rifles and finishes first and second or similar?
Tom
Jim Borden
New member
was Not controversial in group matches
Can only sign up once per class in group shooting--that statement was at one time in the general rules and applied to all IBS shooting. Then when VFS started--it was loosened to allow the LV and HV gun to be shot in same aggregate--but a rifle had to be declared as the competition rifle and the other was for record only.
It has significantly changed from that and now multiple guns of same class can be fired by one competitor.
Can only sign up once per class in group shooting--that statement was at one time in the general rules and applied to all IBS shooting. Then when VFS started--it was loosened to allow the LV and HV gun to be shot in same aggregate--but a rifle had to be declared as the competition rifle and the other was for record only.
It has significantly changed from that and now multiple guns of same class can be fired by one competitor.
A
AVanGorder
Guest
Multiple Guns in VFS
We need to take a look at what our sport is. Benchrest is not a sport that is somewhere at the bottom of rifle shooting, it is the top. At the top of any sport is great cost, financial as well as time and other resources.
We should not take personal situations into consideration when rules are concerned. If we do that, we'll have to consider that long haul truck drivers are gone most the time therefore they don't have as much time to shoot. What about the MD who must work weekends? Should we have matches on Tuesday to accommodate him/her? Would you make rules about how much a person can practice (seems silly, doesn't it)? Making rules to slow someone down, may do just that, but, it will slow down the entire sport!
Take a look at auto racing, some will say that Formula 1 and NASCAR at the top of their sports. Ferrari has two cars in every Formula 1 race. Joe Gibbs has at least 3 NASCAR teams. These teams cost millions. For those of us that don't have the millions but want to race, we go to the dirt track and buy an engine for $500 from the previous winner.
Money, that thing nobody has enough of. I will continue to say that if we have an IBS recognized Factory Class it will encourage more shooters as well as make it affordable for the less financially endowed. There are other shooting sports already doing this and are extremely successful at it.
Let's take a look at some of the positives of encouraging more shooters to shoot more guns. It's good for the economy. The manufacturers will love it since they are selling more stuff. The more they sell, the cheaper they can make it (economy of scale). The clubs will earn more from the entry fees. Shooters will get to shoot more since they are already there. What about those precision shooter points?
Take the luck factor out of the game. If a given shooter is good, he/she will win regardless of how many other shooters, or guns, are at the match.
Adrian
We need to take a look at what our sport is. Benchrest is not a sport that is somewhere at the bottom of rifle shooting, it is the top. At the top of any sport is great cost, financial as well as time and other resources.
We should not take personal situations into consideration when rules are concerned. If we do that, we'll have to consider that long haul truck drivers are gone most the time therefore they don't have as much time to shoot. What about the MD who must work weekends? Should we have matches on Tuesday to accommodate him/her? Would you make rules about how much a person can practice (seems silly, doesn't it)? Making rules to slow someone down, may do just that, but, it will slow down the entire sport!
Take a look at auto racing, some will say that Formula 1 and NASCAR at the top of their sports. Ferrari has two cars in every Formula 1 race. Joe Gibbs has at least 3 NASCAR teams. These teams cost millions. For those of us that don't have the millions but want to race, we go to the dirt track and buy an engine for $500 from the previous winner.
Money, that thing nobody has enough of. I will continue to say that if we have an IBS recognized Factory Class it will encourage more shooters as well as make it affordable for the less financially endowed. There are other shooting sports already doing this and are extremely successful at it.
Let's take a look at some of the positives of encouraging more shooters to shoot more guns. It's good for the economy. The manufacturers will love it since they are selling more stuff. The more they sell, the cheaper they can make it (economy of scale). The clubs will earn more from the entry fees. Shooters will get to shoot more since they are already there. What about those precision shooter points?
Take the luck factor out of the game. If a given shooter is good, he/she will win regardless of how many other shooters, or guns, are at the match.
Adrian
David Apple
Member
Adrian the pot stirrer
Adrain you ole pot stirrer.
Let's limit how many barrels you can have while we're at it. No sense allowing those rich folks 50 barrels to choose from. I never thought I'd see the day but Hillary Clinton has come to Benchrest. "Let's make it fair for everyone."
Any time a rule is changed, someone benefits.
To be fair, an impact statement should be prepared analyzing the percieved impact. It would be nice to look at the data rather than hyperbole.
Adrain you ole pot stirrer.
Let's limit how many barrels you can have while we're at it. No sense allowing those rich folks 50 barrels to choose from
. I never thought I'd see the day but Hillary Clinton has come to Benchrest. "Let's make it fair for everyone." Any time a rule is changed, someone benefits.
To be fair, an impact statement should be prepared analyzing the percieved impact. It would be nice to look at the data rather than hyperbole.