Powder & Primer Storage in Basement Area

R

RJC

New member
What is the best way to store rifle powder(under 50 pounds) and primers (under 10,000) in your house? I want to be as safe as possible in case of fire!

Is a wooden box made of 1" plywood sufficent for powder? Should it have a locking lid? Can a separate identical box be used for primers (under 10,000) for storage?

I do have a separate storage room from my reloading room that has that has four cement walls (inside walls are drywalled and painted) with a solid locking metal door, can the primers and powder both be stored in this storage area?

Thanks for any advice.
 
If the area where your propellants/primers are stored gets hotter than 250 degrees Fahrenheit things WILL blow up.....so I'm completely missing the logix of your questions. Exactly how does a wooden box offer any protection from fire? Or two boxes? IMO "safe as possible" means get it out of the house.....

The way bulk fuels are supposed to be stored is in a removed metal box with a 'blast door' which means that one side, the door side, is purposely made weak. And this box is set away from the living quarters, preferably removed entirely but at least as far away as feasible and with the 'blast door' side facing away from occupants. This can get tricky in town as "away from the occupants" may well be right into the neighbor's kitchen window.

The way powder/primers commonly ARE stored safely is in an old fridge or upright freezer unit found on the side of the road or free off craigslist. Metal box, insulated, with a soft-open door. This unit can be set out in the garage or an outbuilding with a 40W bulb inside and plugged in yr-round. Ohhh, I forgot, Obama hissownself has just summarily BANNED 40W bulbs so you'll have to stimulate the economy by buying a "Goldenrod" or similar dehumidifying/heating unit......but the old fridge idea is sound.

Bottom line is, there is no law saying what you should do with your under 50lb of fuel but remember that this stuff isn't like paper or wood....... powder and primers carry their own oxidizer which means they will burn in an airtight space, in a vacuum or even under water. If you plan on putting them in your block room you must ensure that the block room will never exceed 250-300 degrees or you've made a cinderblock containment bomb. I do vaults and the main rule with vaults is to keep them low and near the outside corners, preferably on the upwind side. Idea being that the structure can burn down without heating the vault beyond it's capacity to sink or "withstand heat." How is your room set up? What sort of lid? what's gonna' happen to it when the house burns?

Is it safer than a fridge in the garage?

hth

al
 
alinwa; Bottom line is said:
AL, You might want to rethink that line check with state fire marshal. I think you will be VERY surprised on what amounts can and can not be stored in a residence...
Click to expand...
 
here is a guide from SAAMI that discusses safe powder storage. most of the info toward the end of the brochure references commercial storage but there are a couple of nuggets in there that talk about home & personal storage.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

Chapter 11
Small Arms Ammunition and Primers, Smokeless Propellants,
and Black Powder Propellants
11-1 Basic Requirements.
11-1.1
In addition to all other applicable requirements of this
code, intrastate transportation of small arms ammunition, small
arms primers, smokeless propellants, and black powder shall com-
ply with US Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials
Regulations, 49 CFR, Parts 100-199.
11-1.2
This chapter applies to the channels of distribution of and
to the users of small arms ammunition, small arms primers, smoke-
less propellants, and black powder.
11-1.3
This chapter does not apply to in-process storage and
intra-plant transportation during manufacture.
11-1.4
This chapter applies to the transportation and storage of
small arms ammunition and components.
11-1.5
This chapter does not apply to safety procedures in the use
of small arms ammunition and components.
11-3 Smokeless Propellants
11-3.1
Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 lb.
(11.3 kg) in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of
Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.
11-3.2
Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb.
(11.3 kg) but not exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), transported in a pri-
vate vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having
wood walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.
11-3.3
Transportation of more than 50 lb. (22.7 kg) of smokeless
propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.
11-3.4
Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants in quanti-
ties not exceeding 100 lb. (45.4 kg) may be reclassed for trans-
portation purposes as flammable solids (Division 4.1) when pack-
aged in accordance with the U.S. Department of Transportation
Hazardous Materials Regulation (49 CFR, Part 173.171), and shall
be transported accordingly.
11-3.5
Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding
100 lb. (45.4 kg); or not packaged in accordance with the regula-
tions cited in 11-3.4 shall be transported in accordance with the
U.S. Department of Transportation regulations for Division 1.3C pro-
pellant explosives.
11-3.6
Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping contain-
ers approved by US Department of Transportation.
11-3.7
Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities
not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original
containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not
exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in resi-
dences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least
1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.
11-3.8
Not more than 20 lb. (9.1 kg) of smokeless propellants, in
containers of a 1 lb. (0.45 kg) maximum capacity shall be dis-
played in commercial establishments.
11-3.9
Commercial stocks of smokeless propellants shall be
stored as follows:
(a) Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) but not exceeding 100 lb.
(45.4 kg) shall be stored in portable wooden boxes having walls of
at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) thickness.
(b) Quantities exceeding 100 lb. (45.4 kg) but not exceeding 800
lb. (363 kg) shall be stored in non-portable storage cabinets having
walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) thickness. Not more than 400 lb.
(181 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in any one cabinet and
cabinets shall be separated by a distance of at least 25 ft (7.63 m)
or by a fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.
(c) Quantities exceeding 800 lb. (363 kg) but not exceeding
5,000 lb. (2,268 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in a building,
provided the following requirements are met:
1.
The warehouse or storage room shall not be accessible to unau-
thorized personnel.
2.
Smokeless propellants shall be stored in non-portable storage
cabinets having wood walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) thickness
and having shelves with no more than 3 ft (0.92 m) of separation
between shelves.
3.
No more than 400 lb. (181 kg) shall be stored in any one cabinet.
4.
Cabinets shall be located against the walls of the storage room or
warehouse with at least 40 ft. (12.2 m) between cabinets.
5.
The separation between cabinets shall be permitted to be
reduced to 20 ft. (6.1 m) where barricades twice the height of the
cabinets are attached to the wall, mid-way between each cabinet.
The barricades shall extend at least 10 ft. (3 m) outward, shall be
firmly attached to the wall, and shall be constructed of 1/4 in (6.4
mm) boiler plate, 2 in (51 mm) thick wood, brick, or concrete block.
6.
Smokeless propellant shall be separated from materials classified by
the US Department of Transportation as flammable liquids, flammable
solids, and oxidizing materials by a distance of 25 ft (7.63 m) or by a
fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.
7.
The building shall be protected by an automatic sprinkler system
installed in accordance with NFPA 13,
Standard for the Installation of
Sprinkler Systems
.
(d) Smokeless propellants not stored in accordance with 11-3.9
(a), (b), and (c) shall be stored in a Type 4 magazine constructed
and located in accordance with Chapter 6.
 
Pretty much what state laws are, when I lived in Indiana I had a visit from fire marshal about powder storage. only had a few lbs. at home rest stored somewhere else so no issues. but most people do not think about it.
 
geo.ulrich said:
AL, You might want to rethink that line check with state fire marshal. I think you will be VERY surprised on what amounts can and can not be stored in a residence...
Click to expand...


I'm not disagreeing with you George but in my experience the old fridge meets the criteria for "up to 50lb" in the 6 states I've lived. And. also IMO, it withstands fire better than a wooden box. Which is where I'm really coming from, having experienced a couple fires.
 
Scofflaws

We are all scofflaws (probably). Most fire departments follow the National Fire Protection Association rules. NFPA 495, Explosive Materials Code, Chapter 14 states (14.3.1, 14.3.2 & 14.3.3) that you can transport up to 11.3 kg (25 lb) smokeless powder in your vehicle if it is in the original container. Over 11.3 kg up to 22.7 kg (50 lb) have to have a magazine constructed of 24.5 mm (1 inch) nominal thickness wood. More than 22.7 kg cannot be transproted in a private vehicle.

Article 14.3.7.1 allows 9.1 kg (20 lb) of smokeless powder in original containers in a residence. Article 14.3.7.2 allows up to 22.7 kg (50 lb) to be stored in a residence in a wood cabinet or box with 24.5 mm (1 inch) walls.

Article 14.4.3 allows Black Powder for personal use can be stored in a residence in original containers in the wood box in quantities up to 9.1 kg.

Article 14.5.3 allows for no more than 25,000 primers to be transported in a private vehicle. Article 14.5.4 allows an increase to 150,000 for primers classified by DOT as 1.4S.

Article 14.5.5 allows for no more than 10,000 primers to be stored in a private residence. Article 14.5.5 allows an increase to 150,000 for primers classified by DOT as 1.4S

I think the primers we use are 1.4S, but am not sure. If you buy in bulk from an on-line retailer, the box comes with DOT markings, as I recall.

If you trust your fire department, it is a good idea to provide them with a house plan that identifies which room has powder and primer storage. It makes a difference in how they will fight a house fire at your place.
 
most of us is in trouble!

Very few of us, to include most retailers comply with the requirements of current administration. I would be careful about too much discussion of what you have or do considering the political climate we are in. most of us at same time have transported more than 25lbs of powder and more that 10k of primers- not to mention what we store as we try to buy a bunch of one lot. just my thoughts. jim casey
 
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