Planning my 6PPC equipment, need advice!

S

sgt_jamez

New member
So I am your typical 6PPC newbie trying to make some informed decisions before kerplunking a ton of cash into this project. I'd like to lay out my equipment plan and if I am lucky, you seasoned shooters will tell me if I am making good choices or offer alternatives. Thank you in advance!

Rifle Intended for 100/200 yard Light/Heavy Varmint Comp
Action - Bighorn Arms TL3 single shot RBLP
Barrel - Pac-Nor 22" Small Shank Savage thread, 3-groove, 1:12 twist, .060" freebore, .262" neck (Bart's 68 BTs to Berger 80 FBs)
Trigger - Jewell BR or Triggertech Diamond
Stock - Kelbly's Klub, TMBR, or SPG FB Anyone know how long it takes to get a stock made by Kelbly?

I have some range reloading gear and intend to load at the range
Press - I have the Harrell's Combo
Sizing die - What are your thoughts on the JLC FL die? Do the bushings size all the way to the neck shoulder junction?
Seater die - Wilson Sinclair micrometer seater inline die
Powder meter - I have the Harrell's Classic
Scale - Do you guys weigh charges at the range? I have a Gem Pro 250 but it eats batteries like crazy. Better solution?
Funnel/drop tube - Been throwing 6BR charges straight from the Harrell's to the case. Would a funnel drop tube like the 6" or 10" from 21st Century be better?
Inside Chamfer tool - Considering the K&M controlled depth tapered reamer (at home I use a redding trimmer with a RCBS 3-way)

The stock and the myriad of details for the barrel chamber are really an issue for me. I have limited funds so I am trying very hard to make the best choices up front. Thanks for taking the time to read all this!

-Jim
 
Newbie to Newbie

I'm not going to directly address your questions but will instead offer some general advice.

1) Forget about all the equipment specs for now and focus on finding a mentor. I see from your profile, you're near Sacramento, CA. If you haven't done so, contact Dan Lutke (Sloughhouse Shooters) at 408-241-9759 and tell him you want to get involved in benchrest shooting. I don't know Dan personally but I would almost guarantee that he'll be thrilled to talk with you.

2) From the NBRSA website, it appears the Sloughhouse Shooters host a number of long range and short range group and score matches.

https://www.nbrsa.org/southwest-region-match-schedule-2019/

If you haven't done so, go out to the matches, introduce yourself, and tell the folks you're interested in benchrest shooting. That will get the ball rolling for sure.

3) Once you're sure the sport is for you and you want to get a rifle, try to find a used rifle on a proven action like a Panda, BAT, Borden, or Stiller. Even if you replace the existing barrel with a new one, you'll be hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars ahead of the game. Your new friends at Sloughhouse will help you. And I suggest you stick with something like a Panda or BAT action because there will always be a resale market for those actions.

4) Spend time with the Search function on this forum. I promise you every question you've raised has been asked before and many good shooters have offered their opinion.

5) Finally, if your goal is to win matches, prepare yourself to be disappointed. The real wining in benchrest shooting is found in the time spent with your new friends and from the personal satisfaction that comes with learning/perfecting new skills.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
 
I agree with everything Kyle said. I was in your shoes about 18 months ago.

Go to some matches, watch and ask questions!
Buy Tony Boyers “book on rifle accuracy”.

I too recommend a Bat or Panda, but you really need to go see for yourself. I’m sure plenty of guys will offer to let you shoot their rifles and discuss gear with you. You’ll learn far more that way than you will on forums.

There’s a steep learning curve so don’t get discouraged. There’s nothing more satisfying than shooting your first screamer in a match, or your first top 3 Agg, or first top 10 2-gun or whatever goals you set for yourself. It’s all about the journey and friendships gained!

Brian
 
I am a voting member out at Sac Valley and I have even shot once at a score match (I held my own at the bottom of the list:cool:) out there with my home-built Savage 6BR.

You guys are right in that they are a good source of info, but my schedule doesn't line up with their shoots as often as I would like, so I was seeking some additional info here. Yes, I am familiar with the virtues of BAT, Panda, Stolle, Hall. But the intent was to build the rifle myself, and I don't have the ability to cut the chamber and headspace as would be required for one of the aforementioned options.

Anyway, thank you guys for your input. Any and all are appreciated.
 
AS other people have said, stick to a Stolle panda or Bat action, these are what win or have won in the past. Its best to use proven equipment. Your barrel will need to be a 13 to 14 twist for the bullets you intend to use. The majority of shooters use a Jewel or Bix n andy trigger. And a good cheapish scope is a sightron 36x dot reticle. And you might want a smaller freebore especially with BT bullets .060" won't leave much bearing surface in the case neck with boat tail bullets, i think. I have a .030" freebore and my FB Barts are about halfway down the neck. Your .060" might be ok with flat base bullets.
Have a look at the NBRSA website for equipment lists and see what the everyone is using.
 
Well Sarge (Thank You For Your Service, Seriously) ....... it sounds like you have a plan well in hand :)

You've gotten really sound advice.

I'll add this, I, as in me personally, my hard-earned money, spent tens of thousands of dollars over 6-8yrs trying to #1-"save money" and #2-"prove a point" and #3-"do things my way, on my own terms" before I learned a valuable lesson...... "Buy FROM A REAL BR GUY a rifle BUILT BY A REAL BR GUY" if you want to throw around the term "BR".....

And this is from a guy who actually went to an approved Gunsmithing School and was undisputed top of my class for the nearly two years before they expelled me for abnormal behaviour. I was a working gunsmith, in a shop, within two days of being expelled and worked in 3 different sporting goods stores in different states over time....in my own personal opinion I was the best sporterizer in the market dollar-for-dollar.

I could "make a gun shoot" like no other.

Until BR.

I had 5 "PPC's" prior to owning a built "Benchrest Rifle"

I had 15 "custom guns" in things like 6BR, 22BR, .243AI, 22-250, 222, 223, 308 and a list of satisfied folks around me, all proudly carrying wallet groups just like me (but not as good as mine)

Then I got a real 6PPC.

And started all over from scratch.

is all's I'm sayin'

:)
 
Finding a mentor was the trick for me too. Then I attended three of Bob White's Benchrest Clinics and Seminars. Harley Baker was a big influence on what to purchase regarding support equipment. Then I bought what I really needed.

Bob
 
Finding a mentor is number one on my list.

When I first started Benchrest years ago,(mid '90's), I was fortunate enough to have several mentors, Glenn Newick in particular. At the very least a good mentor will help you understand many of the concepts of Benchrest that are foreign to many shooters.

Sooner or later you will develop your own ideas. One of our biggest problems is many of us keep trying to reinvent the wheel. It's a natural progression in our never ending battle to do better the next time. But when first starting out, stick with the basic tried and true formula.

I have several ideas that worked great. But I also have a closet full that were simply an exercise in futility.

Benchrest Rifles are very one dimensional in in their purpose. What it does, it does very well, but the truth is, it is not a very practical piece of equipment out of it's inviroment. We sacrifice all other parameters of Rifle performance for on thing, the ability to shoot competitive ages in a competitive arena.

I'm heading up to Tomball this morning to shoot my Rail Gun, getting ready for the Nationals. Hopefully this barrel will be a keeper. If it is, and shoots well, a fellow club member will probably come over and marvel at the tiny groups.

But think about it. That is what it is designed and built to do. If it won't, it is a thoroughly useless piece of equipment, aside from being a 90 pound door stop.
 
Last edited:
Clearly you have received a lot of very good advice. I'll only add a little as I'm one of those who tend to try and reinvent the whee and understand where you are coming from. The mentor thing is #1 priority. But # 2 is decide if you want to compete/win or do you want to build your own? If you really want to learn this game and win some fake wood now and then, set aside the idea of building your own rifle for now. As I think was mentioned you will save hundreds, maybe thousands if you buy a used benchrest rifle, preferably one that you know has won matches. This is even if you have to pay a little more for it. Save you building plans until you KNOW what works in this game. Also, you won't learn how to read the wind until you shoot a truly accurate rifle. While it's possible you may do this with your own build, odds are against it, especially with the list you gave.

Rick
 
Need Advice

Plenty of good advice so far.
I'll add that a well built rifle, good barrel, great bullets, top of the line rest and bags and a good scope are all useless without a good set of wind flags!
 
Re:Need Advice

Kyle Schultz said:
I'm not going to directly address your questions but will instead offer some general advice.

1) Forget about all the equipment specs for now and focus on finding a mentor. I see from your profile, you're near Sacramento, CA. If you haven't done so, contact Dan Lutke (Sloughhouse Shooters) at 408-241-9759 and tell him you want to get involved in benchrest shooting. I don't know Dan personally but I would almost guarantee that he'll be thrilled to talk with you.

2) From the NBRSA website, it appears the Sloughhouse Shooters host a number of long range and short range group and score matches.

https://www.nbrsa.org/southwest-region-match-schedule-2019/

If you haven't done so, go out to the matches, introduce yourself, and tell the folks you're interested in benchrest shooting. That will get the ball rolling for sure.

3) Once you're sure the sport is for you and you want to get a rifle, try to find a used rifle on a proven action like a Panda, BAT, Borden, or Stiller. Even if you replace the existing barrel with a new one, you'll be hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars ahead of the game. Your new friends at Sloughhouse will help you. And I suggest you stick with something like a Panda or BAT action because there will always be a resale market for those actions.

Sgt. Jamez,

I agree with everything Kyle says above, and as a fellow member of Sac Valley (I'm the one who got the BR range started out there and was Match Director the first 12 years)
I would like to extend a personal invite to come out to one of our next two matches (VFS on Oct 6th, LV/HV Group Nov 2 & 3).
Dan Lutke who is the current match director for the group matches (I usually just run the VFS matches now) just underwent Knee surgery on Friday so he might not get back to you right away, but you can always contact me at wfcustom@comcast.net with any questions.

If you want to shoot a real BR rifle at one of the matches let me know and I'm sure I or one of our fellow shooters can hook you up with a rifle and ammo.
Just let us know enough ahead of time.
Also +1 on a good set of flags because as already mentioned you do need a good (predictable) rifle to learn to read the wind, but the best rifle won't shoot for you
if you can't read the wind, and you can't read the wind without a good set of flags.
(is that a paradox?):confused:

Hope to see ya out there on Range 11,
Greg
Click to expand...
 
wfcustom said:
Kyle Schultz said:
.................
Also +1 on a good set of flags because as already mentioned you do need a good (predictable) rifle to learn to read the wind, but the best rifle won't shoot for you
if you can't read the wind, and you can't read the wind without a good set of flags.
(is that a paradox?):confused:

Hope to see ya out there on Range 11,
Greg
Click to expand...

Truer words were never spoken!

And, what I chose to do is..... I got the rifle first and made some wind indicators for a while. I tried all sorts of things but a half dozen 4ft woodstakes or lath and a roll of surveyors tape will certainly get you started at least in light to moderate winds.

I did spend twice too much money here though also (notice a trend? It's "The Alinwa Way" ;) ) in spending hundreds of dollars over time making my own, buying a full set of the WRONG flags, trying to make do with a mismatched mish-mash of "good" flags but not all matched the same and FINALLY just recently biting the bullet and buying a matched setup of known flags from a reputable maker.


What I'm trying to say is, IMO flags can be one of two things and still be cost-effective, either wood stakes and tape, or buy a set of good ones.

And (again, MY OPINION!) if you stumble acros't a Begg's Wind Probe...... buy it

(ok, 3 things lol)
Click to expand...
 
wfcustom said:
Kyle Schultz said:
I'm not going to directly address your questions but will instead offer some general advice.

1) Forget about all the equipment specs for now and focus on finding a mentor. I see from your profile, you're near Sacramento, CA. If you haven't done so, contact Dan Lutke (Sloughhouse Shooters) at 408-241-9759 and tell him you want to get involved in benchrest shooting. I don't know Dan personally but I would almost guarantee that he'll be thrilled to talk with you.

2) From the NBRSA website, it appears the Sloughhouse Shooters host a number of long range and short range group and score matches.

https://www.nbrsa.org/southwest-region-match-schedule-2019/

If you haven't done so, go out to the matches, introduce yourself, and tell the folks you're interested in benchrest shooting. That will get the ball rolling for sure.

3) Once you're sure the sport is for you and you want to get a rifle, try to find a used rifle on a proven action like a Panda, BAT, Borden, or Stiller. Even if you replace the existing barrel with a new one, you'll be hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars ahead of the game. Your new friends at Sloughhouse will help you. And I suggest you stick with something like a Panda or BAT action because there will always be a resale market for those actions.

Sgt. Jamez,

I agree with everything Kyle says above, and as a fellow member of Sac Valley (I'm the one who got the BR range started out there and was Match Director the first 12 years)
I would like to extend a personal invite to come out to one of our next two matches (VFS on Oct 6th, LV/HV Group Nov 2 & 3).
Dan Lutke who is the current match director for the group matches (I usually just run the VFS matches now) just underwent Knee surgery on Friday so he might not get back to you right away, but you can always contact me at wfcustom@comcast.net with any questions.

If you want to shoot a real BR rifle at one of the matches let me know and I'm sure I or one of our fellow shooters can hook you up with a rifle and ammo.
Just let us know enough ahead of time.
Also +1 on a good set of flags because as already mentioned you do need a good (predictable) rifle to learn to read the wind, but the best rifle won't shoot for you
if you can't read the wind, and you can't read the wind without a good set of flags.
(is that a paradox?):confused:

Hope to see ya out there on Range 11,
Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

I do believe my friend Nick and I met you. I would love to take you up on the offer of using an actual BR rifle. It would be awesome if someone had a donor rifle for me to use. Overwhelmingly the responses I've gotten here tell me that I'd be blowing it to try to build my own rifle. The tinkerer in me hates the idea of buying used, but I did ask for advice. I should definitely listen to what I am being told. I'll admit, that's a hard pill for me to swallow. But I do want a "real" BR gun. I don't need a $4,000 aneurysm! I will be in contact to sign up for the VFS match (is that varmint for score? not familiar with that). This is definitely a case of not hearing what I thought I would. Thank you everyone who has taken the time and care to respond. I will definitely hold off on trying to build and I will see what comes from going back to Range 11! Thank you all!

Sgt Jamez
Click to expand...
 
Sarge,

Excellent advice has been given to you, especially Kyle's and those recommending wind flags.

All I'd add (from one new guy to another) is to buy the absolute BEST scope you can possibly afford that fits the discipline and any weight restrictions there may be. And while you're making the rounds at the range look through as many as you can. A wise and seasoned shooter once told me that the most expensive mistake you can make is buying a cheap scope that won't hold zero and has poor visibility through it. I've found that to be exactly correct. JME. And good luck in your endeavor to get into the 6ppc game. It's frustrating at times, but extremely fulfilling when it all comes together. (Trust me) ;-) WD
 
WyleWD said:
Excellent advice has been given to you, especially Kyle's and those recommending wind flags.

All I'd add (from one new guy to another) is to buy the absolute BEST scope you can possibly afford that fits the discipline and any weight restrictions there may be. And while you're making the rounds at the range look through as many as you can. A wise and seasoned shooter once told me that the most expensive mistake you can make is buying a cheap scope that won't hold zero and has poor visibility through it. I've found that to be exactly correct. JME. And good luck in your endeavor to get into the 6ppc game. It's frustrating at times, but extremely fulfilling when it all comes together. (Trust me) ;-) WD
Click to expand...

The most expensive mistake you can make is buying a high dollar scope that won't hold zero. Just because something cost a lot is no guarantee it is suitable for short range Group or Score.

Three seasons ago I wasted a lot of good bullets on a line of scopes that were notorious for not settling in after an adjustment and suddenly moving the POI a quarter inch half way through a target. These were scopes from one of the best known and respected manufacturers.

I sold all three off at a huge discount and went to a model that seems to be holding up very well.
 
And.....

jackie schmidt said:
The most expensive mistake you can make is buying a high dollar scope that won't hold zero. Just because something cost a lot is no guarantee it is suitable for short range Group or Score.

Three seasons ago I wasted a lot of good bullets on a line of scopes that were notorious for not settling in after an adjustment and suddenly moving the POI a quarter inch half way through a target. These were scopes from one of the best known and respected manufacturers.

I sold all three off at a huge discount and went to a model that seems to be holding up very well.
Click to expand...

Excellent point Jackie! Your experience probably made you realize it was a scope issue. A novice might spend lots of time and resources trying to find the issue and lose confidence in shooting ability. Again, good point. Thank you for pointing that out. WD
 
sgt_jamez said:
wfcustom said:
Greg,

I do believe my friend Nick and I met you. I would love to take you up on the offer of using an actual BR rifle. It would be awesome if someone had a donor rifle for me to use. Overwhelmingly the responses I've gotten here tell me that I'd be blowing it to try to build my own rifle. The tinkerer in me hates the idea of buying used, but I did ask for advice. I should definitely listen to what I am being told. I'll admit, that's a hard pill for me to swallow. But I do want a "real" BR gun. I don't need a $4,000 aneurysm! I will be in contact to sign up for the VFS match (is that varmint for score? not familiar with that). This is definitely a case of not hearing what I thought I would. Thank you everyone who has taken the time and care to respond. I will definitely hold off on trying to build and I will see what comes from going back to Range 11! Thank you all!

Sgt Jamez
Click to expand...

Jim,
If you would send Dan an a e-mail (cabenchrest@gmail.com) with your e-mail address and ask him to add you to the local BR drip.
This will get you the registration reminder notifications that we send out the week (usually) before the match. He will also send you the schedule and forms.
I will make a note that you will be attending the VFS (Varmint for Score) match on the 6th of Oct, please verify with me the week prior.
I will bring my 6PPC HV rifle and enough rounds to get you through the match, I shoot a 30 BR in score so won't be using it at that match.
I think that holding off on the build until you discuss, use, see, touch, some rifles is a smart decision.
There will be plenty of time for "tinkering" later, as Jackie, Alinwa, and others have pointed out its what we do!
And +1 on a known quality scope.
Greg
Click to expand...
 
sgt_jamez said:
wfcustom said:
Greg,

I do believe my friend Nick and I met you. I would love to take you up on the offer of using an actual BR rifle. It would be awesome if someone had a donor rifle for me to use. Overwhelmingly the responses I've gotten here tell me that I'd be blowing it to try to build my own rifle. The tinkerer in me hates the idea of buying used, but I did ask for advice. I should definitely listen to what I am being told. I'll admit, that's a hard pill for me to swallow. But I do want a "real" BR gun. I don't need a $4,000 aneurysm! I will be in contact to sign up for the VFS match (is that varmint for score? not familiar with that). This is definitely a case of not hearing what I thought I would. Thank you everyone who has taken the time and care to respond. I will definitely hold off on trying to build and I will see what comes from going back to Range 11! Thank you all!

Sgt Jamez
Click to expand...

Sarge, you've had a lot of good advise, but what makes me think that you are ahead of most is you are grateful the suggestions and willing to put your ego on the back burner.
Good luck and it is great to have you.
Click to expand...
 
BTW Sarge..... can I use "$4000.00 aneurism?" I mean, FOR ME, I've just got so many places...... I mean I could REALLY use it.......a lot
 
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