Ouch, My wallet just took a hit..

R

Rustystud

New member
I recently bought eight carbide drill bits for for drilling hardened actions and bolts. They cost $424.00 Yes, I know you can buy less expensive but you can't buy better quality for less. It does not take but one broken bit or tap in the wrong location to pay for itself.

There is noting I hate worse than a dull drill bit or a work hardened piece of metal.

This is why gunsmiths and machinist charges $25.00 to $50.00 per hole in your action.

Nat Lambeth
 
Rustystud said:
I recently bought eight carbide drill bits for for drilling hardened actions and bolts. They cost $424.00 Yes, I know you can buy less expensive but you can't buy better quality for less. It does not take but one broken bit or tap in the wrong location to pay for itself.

There is noting I hate worse than a dull drill bit or a work hardened piece of metal.

This is why gunsmiths and machinist charges $25.00 to $50.00 per hole in your action.

Nat Lambeth
Click to expand...
Nat, an old machinist trick, back in the days, was to use CCl3 (Carbon tetrachloride). But that was in the days when we had some control. Carbon Tet would allow you to use a plain HHS drill it would even break through crystallized (work hardened) stainless steel/

I still have an old fire extinguisher with Carbon Tet in it that I use occasionally just for that purpose......call the Control Police!!!
 
Forty years ago when the wife and I were first married, her Grandfather had a 03-A3 Springfield that brought at least two gun shops to their knees trying to drill and tap it. I brought it back to him and said it could not be drilled. He umphed, and stripped the stock off, grabbed a #33 HSS drill bit out of an index and set the rifle up in a vise on an old hand crank post mounted drill press. He squirted the well marked drill location with kerosene and began to turn the drill keeping light pressure on the elevation wheel he just kept turning. I was surprised to see the drill cut through the case, He stopped then and sharpened the drill, returned it to the chuck and lower it into the hole, in a short time he had that hole drilled and proceeded on to the other three. We carefully tapped the hole with a 6x40 tap still using kerosene for coolant. He had never heard of a 6-48 thread but said this would work and it did. He had a set of little tap guides that looked like thimbles but with a V groove on the bottom and a tight clearance hole to stick the tap through, It took him better than an hour to drill and tap all four holes. He said that the shops that had tried where using too much speed to cut that tough case. If you can really slow your drill press speed down, this works for powered drill presses too.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Nat, an old machinist trick, back in the days, was to use CCl3 (Carbon tetrachloride). But that was in the days when we had some control. Carbon Tet would allow you to use a plain HHS drill it would even break through crystallized (work hardened) stainless steel/

I still have an old fire extinguisher with Carbon Tet in it that I use occasionally just for that purpose......call the Control Police!!!
Click to expand...

Jerry, how is this done? When I was in gunsmithing school many people said as how "Back when we could get Carbon Tet..." and "I've heard this trick." But as far as I know none of them had ever hands on DONE IT.....

Is it a liquid? Do you do it outside and upwind?? Drip it? does it run and stain? Gloves?? Eye protection?? What does it take to use and how does it actually work? Does it etch or soften the casing or what?

Can you use it for tapping? or removing busted taps?

I have access to some Carbon Tet but have no idea'r how to apply it. And my success ratio with using heat, whether oxy/acet or arc, is just too low to trust :eek:

I've tried kerosene, even drilled glass with onion juice ;) but never used carbon tetrachloride.....

al
 
Rustystud said:
I recently bought eight carbide drill bits for for drilling hardened actions and bolts. They cost $424.00 Yes, I know you can buy less expensive but you can't buy better quality for less. It does not take but one broken bit or tap in the wrong location to pay for itself.

There is noting I hate worse than a dull drill bit or a work hardened piece of metal.

This is why gunsmiths and machinist charges $25.00 to $50.00 per hole in your action.

Nat Lambeth
Click to expand...
Hello Nat
I've had super good luck using a #3 carbide center drill to initiate the hole. Then I switch to a 9/64th center cutting carbide endmill. Cuts a more precise hole, with a perfect flat bottom, better than a drill. I am fan of #8X40 Torx screws..


Take care
Jerry
 
Wow, I bought 4 -1/8" coated carbide drills the other day for $8.60 each. They were Garr Tool made in the USA. I figured you could drill 1" holes for that price.

Gary
 
al,
Do you know what a "tinker's dam" is? It was used in days of old. The old tinker came around in his cart to fix things that others could not. If a crock or pot had a crack in it, he would drill a hole in the end of the crack, thereby stopping the crack from progressing, and ruining the piece. People couldn't afford to just go down to the local wally world and buy a new piece of pottery. The "tinkers dam" was make from a bit of clay to form a small dam around the place the tinker wanted to drill. He then usually put a small amount of turpentine inside the dam and drilled slowly with a hand powered drill, slow speed. When he was thru, he just scraped off the clay dam and threw it away.....hence the term we now sometimes hear.....it wasn't worth a tinker's dam. See what you can learn hanging around this place. :D;)

I might add that one should google carbon tetrachloride to find out the hazards of using this stuff. It was used in dry cleaning clothes too. Makes good fire extinguishers. They used to place glass globes of the stuff in schools, etc. The heat of a fire would break the glass. The really bad part is the gas from the heated carbon tet was very poisonous. I used to use it to clean the oil off the clutch of my '47 Ford. Pull it up against a tree, put it in gear, pull the throttle cable out, put it in gear and lay in the floor working the clutch by hand and splash carbon tet thru the inspection plate on the bell housing. Worked for about a week or so them would start grabbing again. Cause was a leaking back main bearing. As a senior in high school that old Ford was my magic chariot. ;);)

Donald
 
Donald said:
al,
Do you know what a "tinker's dam" is? It was used in days of old. The old tinker came around in his cart to fix things that others could not. If a crock or pot had a crack in it, he would drill a hole in the end of the crack, thereby stopping the crack from progressing, and ruining the piece. People couldn't afford to just go down to the local wally world and buy a new piece of pottery. The "tinkers dam" was make from a bit of clay to form a small dam around the place the tinker wanted to drill. He then usually put a small amount of turpentine inside the dam and drilled slowly with a hand powered drill, slow speed. When he was thru, he just scraped off the clay dam and threw it away.....hence the term we now sometimes hear.....it wasn't worth a tinker's dam. See what you can learn hanging around this place. :D;)

I might add that one should google carbon tetrachloride to find out the hazards of using this stuff. It was used in dry cleaning clothes too. Makes good fire extinguishers. They used to place glass globes of the stuff in schools, etc. The heat of a fire would break the glass. The really bad part is the gas from the heated carbon tet was very poisonous. I used to use it to clean the oil off the clutch of my '47 Ford. Pull it up against a tree, put it in gear, pull the throttle cable out, put it in gear and lay in the floor working the clutch by hand and splash carbon tet thru the inspection plate on the bell housing. Worked for about a week or so them would start grabbing again. Cause was a leaking back main bearing. As a senior in high school that old Ford was my magic chariot. ;);)

Donald
Click to expand...

Yep Donald I did :) Drilling glass you use a tinkers dam, only way to keep enough juice around the hole using HSS drill. I'm sure a diamond or carbide drill would be easier! We had to do some of this stuff as projects in school. The "tinkers dam" really stuck with me because the teacher asked the same question and of course we all thought he was talking dirty in class...... :) until he explained hisself. I've many times encountered the phrase in classic literature and most often they've gotten it wrong, at least we bu'shwahh Americans, :D , The Brits often get it right!. Etymology is a hobby of mine.

I've never handled carbon tet and don't want to be careless with it. I have full respect for chemicals, don't want to have parts of me rot off prematurely, but I've wondered how a "super volatile" (I've always pictured it as a souped up degreaser/brake cleaner type substance) works as a drilling aid. I use Tap-Rite and Do-Drill and kerosene and WD-40 and some sticky Swedish stuff I can't pronounce and such for drilling aids and have always wondered what special property of carbon tetrachloride made it useful for cutting steel. I've heard of folks using mineral spirits for drilling but never tried it, maybe c'tet was Da' Schnizzle because it's volatile but non-flammable?? (At least until people realized it was killing them!)

dunno

Frankly I've also wondered if it's another Urban Legend, unobtanium always has special properties......

al
 
As I recall

Carbon Tet acts about like Amonia or Gasoline in terms of it's fumes being absorbed by one's hair, clothing and, I suppose, skin as well. It is a very powerful solvent. I would have never thought to use it as a coolant.
 
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