Why waste that 30 seconds reading the instructions, you know the ones printed by EVERY scope maker on the planet telling you the absolute foolproof way to do this every time, you know, the instructions that all explain it the exact same way.......what do they know.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Why waste that 30 seconds reading the instructions, you know the ones printed by EVERY scope maker on the planet telling you the absolute foolproof way to do this every time, you know, the instructions that all explain it the exact same way.......what do they know.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Scope makers do not write their instructions for the most demanding users. They write brief instructions aimed at the average user. Based on a lot of years at various ranges, the average, and many above average shooters cannot tell you what parallax is, so instructions take this into account. Also, things that really do matter when setting up high power variable and fixed power scopes, for the most exacting applications count for very little for the bulk of their users. On a more personal note, in order to understand these particular details, one would have had to run into a specific problem, have tried the classic instructions, and failed, and then tried something else that worked. If that has not been your personal experience then you are speculating about something with which you have no experience, something that is very common in internet discussions. Of course that is your perfect right. Carry on.
Boyd Allen
Active member
How would you know that ? Again, you are very sure based on pure speculation. The internet breeds and lives off of this kind of thing. If someone gets to where they need to be doing as the manufacturers say that they should, then they have no need for anything else. There is no problem. Neither do I need approval or affirmation of something that I have done successfully many times. If someone has not gotten the result that they want by following instructions, then they may want to try something else to see if they get better results. That is the reason that I have posted in this thread, to encourage trying something that has worked for several of us who have posted here. No one is required to do anything. If someone wants to try what has worked for me...and others, and it helps them solve a problem, that is my goal, and I am pleased to be of assistance. If my trying to be helpful causes someone distress, I can't help that. So be it.
Boyd Allen
Active member
You are welcome. Enjoy that March.
I worked with two Leupolds, a NF, a Schmidt and Bender and a March within a week and found the March to be the most demanding in setup. I was frankly unimpressed with the March........until I got it right. RIGHT it's an impressive hunk of glass.
To this redneck anyways.
The Schmidt and Bender was equally impressive to my eyes but at 3.7lb a fellow could almost carry another gun.
A small one anyways
al
To this redneck anyways.
The Schmidt and Bender was equally impressive to my eyes but at 3.7lb a fellow could almost carry another gun.
A small one anyways
al
B
Brian Adams
Guest
Why follow that painfully difficult one paragraph ( that's the same on my LCS and March optics) when you can enjoy all that cranking and turning.
tim,
Your opinion has value, even if it is expressed with a level of derisiveness I find puzzling.
The instructions on every scope I have owned (admittedly no Marchs) state that, to adjust out parallax error, adjust the objective for sharpest target image. That is simply laughable on its face. Not one manual has described the true test for zero parallax error is to verify there is no parallax error - i.e. by moving the eye around behind the eyepiece to check for apparent movement of the reticle against the target image. That would require first explaining what parallax is. Decades ago they decided that would be far too technical and challenging for the vast majority of scope owners to absorb.
Their procedure requires the user to first adjust the ocular for sharp focus on the reticle plane. But this is nearly impossible to do precisely since there is a very wide range of "almost focused" and the human eye will automatically strain to bring "almost" into artificial focus, which is why the instructions optimistically belabor "look away at the sky or a wall, then glance quickly at the reticle" etc. which is not a foolproof, repeatable procedure for getting the ocular even close to perfectly focused on the reticle plane.
So, give yourself credit, tim, for being more sophisticated than the chap in the Elmer Fudd hunting cap those instructions were tailored for. After all, the troubleshooting section in most consumer appliance manuals starts with "1. Is the power cord plugged into an A/C outlet?"
Last edited by a moderator:
You may wish to revisit that reading for understanding course. Those instructions , when read properly from beginning, emphasize that you establish proper reticle adjustment first and foremost and THEN proceed to parallax. To do otherwise will generate eye strain as the eye try's to compensate. When you're young, somewhat possible, when your older, less likely.
As has been mentioned with the March scopes, it is considerably tougher to get it right, primarily because you have to make very small adjustments when getting the reticle sharp, however when you get it it makes a profound difference.
All the guys that complain about eye strain through a scope usually have this basic misadjustmemt.
You can do it with the back and forth methodology however the general instructions given with scopes, including the very best ones, lead you to this method. It is simple and avoids allowing the eye to compensate, only to haunt you later.
As has been mentioned with the March scopes, it is considerably tougher to get it right, primarily because you have to make very small adjustments when getting the reticle sharp, however when you get it it makes a profound difference.
All the guys that complain about eye strain through a scope usually have this basic misadjustmemt.
You can do it with the back and forth methodology however the general instructions given with scopes, including the very best ones, lead you to this method. It is simple and avoids allowing the eye to compensate, only to haunt you later.
Last edited:
B
Brian Adams
Guest
You may wish to revisit that reading for understanding course.
Why must you be so uncivil? I stopped reading at the end of that sentence.
But out of curiosity, do you have a way to demonstrate that my method does not work?
Put another way, if these readily demonstrable conditions I have achieved are not enough to satisfy the most discerning (such as yourself) then, please, what is missing?
A) Zero parallax error
B) Sharp target image
C) Sharp reticle image
Boyd Allen
Active member
Then he would be reporting on the difference between experience, and a line that is put out for good reason that oversimplifies the subject based on their estimation of ability of their customers to understand everything that is involved. Perhaps you would rather argue than learn. This is only controversial if you have no relevant experience. Those of us who have posted have done the thing, and yes we can all read. Do you reload from a manual as well. Want to guess how many benchrest shooters do that? Why don't you look for some 133 loads for 66 or so grain bullets at the top two nodes in a manual. Good luck with that. This site regularly goes beyond published information in several areas.
B
Brian Adams
Guest
There is a difference between lucky and correct. You seem to stand on principle opposed to every single manufacturer of optics. They simply all must be wrong. Call Leupold technical, report back what they tell you.
tim,
Thanks, I think I'm beginning understand you better. It has a familiar ring - "97% of all cl____e experts agree ... so resistance is futile." It's comforting, not having to understand the "why?", but only to salute the "what".
Definitely stay in your comfort zone and don't lose those instructions!
OK Guys here we go again, Maybe this will help. When my son shoots with me he always says let the young eyes adjust the scope. So I don't think you're doing thing wrong, you are just adjusting to your own eyes. I've let other people us my spotting scope, then gone back to look through it and thought to myself, they must be blind! But its my old eyes. So I say whatever works I guess you need to do it. So what do you do, if the young eyes adjust it and its right for them. Do you leave it or hope the gun tracks in the same spot each time. I adjust to my eyes!
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
Jim1k if the c-hair focus( occular) is correct to begin with then just the front or side for the distance.
Brian, a big +1 on the ac cord being plugged in, 20 years in repair service at least once a week ( I always asked if a cleaning crew had been in, they were real good at partial disconnects. In some cases the disconnection/ re-connection would cause default to oem settings)
Brian, a big +1 on the ac cord being plugged in, 20 years in repair service at least once a week ( I always asked if a cleaning crew had been in, they were real good at partial disconnects. In some cases the disconnection/ re-connection would cause default to oem settings)
Then he would be reporting on the difference between experience, and a line that is put out for good reason that oversimplifies the subject based on their estimation of ability of their customers to understand everything that is involved. Perhaps you would rather argue than learn. This is only controversial if you have no relevant experience. Those of us who have posted have done the thing, and yes we can all read. Do you reload from a manual as well. Want to guess how many benchrest shooters do that? Why don't you look for some 133 loads for 66 or so grain bullets at the top two nodes in a manual. Good luck with that. This site regularly goes beyond published information in several areas.
Trust me Boyd, my experience in CF and RF experience is both far greater than you assume, and far greater than yours.
That being said, for you to assume the directions for LCS, March type scopes directed anything other than the upper levels of shooting demographics is absurd.
This is equivalent of you stating you realize you can enter your vehicle through the door but you prefer going through the trunk.
tim,
Thanks, I think I'm beginning understand you better. It has a familiar ring - "97% of all cl____e experts agree ... so resistance is futile." It's comforting, not having to understand the "why?", but only to salute the "what".
Definitely stay in your comfort zone and don't lose those instructions!
No, I guess what I'm saying is 100% of all scope manufacturers agree! but some folks are too thick.
B
Brian Adams
Guest
In some cases the disconnection/ re-connection would cause default to oem settings)
Ouch! Nice "feature".
B
Brian Adams
Guest
That being said, for you to assume the directions for LCS, March type scopes directed anything other than the upper levels of shooting demographics is absurd.
tim,
Let me ask you this simple question:
Does the March manual explain how check for parallax error by moving the eye around behind the ocular and observing any apparent reticle motion against the target image?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.