No More Vertical! In Tune At Last!

G

Gene Beggs

Active member
His vertical stringing problems are over. Yes, today another fine shooter completed tuner training at the tunnel in West Texas and departed with new appreciation for the latest in rifle tuning technology. His identity I will not divulge, but I can tell you this; his equipment is top notch, attention to detail, loading and rifle handling are right on and armed now with a keen understanding of how to use his new Beggs tuner, he will be hard to beat.

The rifle is a Kelbly/Stolle Panda in a McMillan EDGE stock topped with a Leupold Competition 45 scope mounted in double-screw Kelbly rings. The 23 inch Krieger 6mm barrel was shortened less than an inch to make the 10.5 pound weight limit when installing the Beggs tuner and the rifle proved to be incredibly accurate.

Regardless of elevation or atmospheric conditions, the rifle will be perfectly in tune with the tuner set at one of four positions; 12, 3, 6 or 9 o'clock. That's right, you have a one in four chance of being perfectly in tune with the tuner set at zero, i.e., turned all the way in and backed off one turn with the reference mark set at 12 o'clock.

You then go to the line with your pet load (You never have to change it) and fire a two or three shot group on the sighter. You may be surprised to find the rifle perfectly in tune, but if the sighter shows one bullet hole of verticle, you are a quarter turn out. If the sighter shows two bullet holes of verticle, you are a half turn out of tune. It's really that simple. Don't believe it? Let me show you. Fly out to the Midland International Airport and give me a call at 432-631-5124. I'll pick you up in my old Chevy truck and in twenty minutes we will be at the tunnel where you will see for yourself how easy it is to keep your rifle in tune. I look forward to hearing from you.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene, are you still working with the DA to predict the tuner set up or just relying on a test group and an on the line tuner adjustment ?
 
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So, did they fix the rules to where we can crank on 'em during a match, or do they still think we're not quite as bright as the rimfire folks?
 
Chuck

Your about 2 years behind. We are into the second shooting season where the NBRSA has allowed tuners to be adjusted at the line whilethe line is hot.
You must:
Remove the bolt from the rifle.
Slide Rifleback in bags, (no standing), make any adjusments needed, place Rifle back in bags, insert bolt, and continue.

I have been doing this for two seasons, and as far as I know, I am yet to disturb a fellow shooter........jackie
 
Gene,

You are one of a very short list of active shooters who has contributed significant new products and knowledge to this sport. Your ingenuity in inventing new products and willingness to share information is matched by only one other person that I know of.

There are still blockheads (folks totally resistant to new ideas) out there who want to argue about whether Wind Probes and tuners work.

I would appreciate it if we had time to sit down at the Super Shoot and go over the tuner thing in detail. Dinner perhaps?

See you there.

Dick
 
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Speaking of Probes

I shot a match yesterday in very windy conditions. I used Probes solely as my indicators as to when to shoot. It worked very well looking through a 6 power scope. It didn't work well for me shooting a VFS rifle however, my eyes ain't what they use to be I guess.

It continues to amaze me how I can shoot better scores with a 6 power scope than I can with a 45-X. :confused:
 
Boyd Allen said:
Ya, but is your muzzle stopped?;)
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Hi Boyd

Of course, I realize you ask this question in jest but it's still a good question.

All of our barrels come to a dead stop at the top and bottom of thier swing as the bullet travels down the bore. The trick is to time bullet exit to coincide with one or the other of these stops, which can be accomplished by varying the powder charge as we have done in the past, or now, thanks to new NBRSA and IBS rules, we can dial it in with the tuner. And it's so simple, so easy!

Many shooters have some form of tuner installed on their muzzles but are reluctant to adjust them during a match for two reasons:

1. Many are time consuming and difficult to adjust, some having as many as four pinch bolts to loosen and retighten every time an adjustment is made. Others are secured with jam nuts which require the use of two wrenches which is cumbersome, frustrating and time consuming.

2. Many are reluctant to move the tuner for fear they will throw the rifle so far out of tune they will never get it dialed in.

This is sad because the greatest advantage of a tuner is to be able to adjust it at the bench to compensate for changes in atmospheric conditions. If one is unwilling to adjust the tuner at the bench, he may as well leave it off as it then becomes only dead weight.

Gene Beggs
 
Gene Beggs said:
All of our barrels come to a dead stop at the top and bottom of their swing as the bullet travels down the bore. The trick is to time bullet exit to coincide with one or the other of these stops, which can be accomplished by varying the powder charge as we have done in the past, or now, thanks to new NBRSA and IBS rules, we can dial it in with the tuner.
Click to expand...
Gene Beggs said:
... the greatest advantage of a tuner is to be able to adjust it at the bench to compensate for changes in atmospheric conditions. If one is unwilling to adjust the tuner at the bench, he may as well leave it off as it then becomes only dead weight.

Gene Beggs
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Readers would be wise to remember both of these statements (in my opinion) :D
 
BJS6 said:
Gene, are you still working with the DA to predict the tuner set up or just relying on a test group and an on the line tuner adjustment ?
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I do not and never have used density altitude (DA) to predict the initial tuner setting. Before the first match of the day, I zero the tuner by turning it all the way in and back it off one turn, setting the reference pointer at 12:00 o'clock. A two or three shot group on the sighter will tell me where to set the tuner. Once that is established, I make a note of temperature, DA, and tuner setting and as the day progresses I can accurately predict what the tuner setting will be to keep the rifle in tune.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Dick Wright said:
You are one of a very short list of active shooters who has contributed significant new products and knowledge to this sport. Your ingenuity in inventing new products and willingness to share information is matched by only one other person that I know of.

There are still blockheads (folks totally resistant to new ideas) out there who want to argue about whether Wind Probes and tuners work.

I would appreciate it if we had time to sit down at the Super Shoot and go over the tuner thing in detail. Dinner perhaps?

See you there.

Dick
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Thanks for the kind words Dick, I'll look forward to visiting with you at the Super Shoot.

Gene
 
I may be wrong......

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that when I get the gun tuned flat that it is too wind sensitive, especially at 200 yards. I would rather have just a hint of vertical in the tune just to get round groups instead of caterpillar groups.............GW
 
Newbie Question

Gene:

This is my first year shooting 100/200 BR and am willing to consider anything that would help my aggs. Is your tuner setup only intended to work with the 6mm Beggs, or could it work with my 6PPC? Do you have a photo of your tuner and how it attaches to the barrel?

I am working to get some free flights on SW Airlines and might just take you up on your offer for some work in your tunnel. Maybe you could PM or Email me offline with additional information.

Thanks;

Jeff
 
Thanks Gene,

That was what I was meaning. You set the tuner to shoot at say 1000 feet in the practice and then when the DA reads say 1500 feet you can predict the tuner setting needed to keep the rifle shooting.

I didn't envisage you used the DA reading to set it before even shooting it.

That said, if you are at different ranges but same DA readings will the same tuner setting work. Say your last group at range A was at a DA of 1000 feet and a certain setting worked well. Two weeks later you are at a different range and the DA is also 1000 feet, would the rifle still be in tune if you hadn't altered the tuner from the last shoot ?? I am assuming that it would likely not be, the DA only working as a reference relative to another DA reading on the same day ???


One other thing - brass is cheap, does anybody go to the line with say 20 rounds at their expected good load and another 20 at say 0.2 - 0.3 grains lighter and another 20 at 0.2 - 0.3 grains heavier powder weight ?? It does seem a bit unusual but it would give an even quicker fix to being out of tune than tweaking a tuner. You could fire a few sighters and if you had some vertical fire three of whichever load seems to be called for and see if they are better, if so then shoot the group with those. It would be a little more work in keeping the ammo on hand but I can't see why it wouldn't be a practical approach.

Bryce
 
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Gary Walters said:
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that when I get the gun tuned flat that it is too wind sensitive, especially at 200 yards. I would rather have just a hint of vertical in the tune just to get round groups instead of caterpillar groups.............GW
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Gary, this is something that has been observed and discussed for many years. No less than two 'Hall of Fame' shooters told me the same thing but said there were only some barrels that exhibited this trait. It did not make any sense to me at the time and it was many years before I understood what was causing this phenomena. It's the result of the built-in curvature in the barrel being oriented in the horizontal plane. Read on.

All barrels droop to some extent because of gravity. This is what causes the barrel to whip or vibrate when it is fired. The frequency and amplitude of this vibration in the vertical plane is the result of length, contour, weight, etc., but if the barrel has a built-in curvature that is inadvertantly oriented in the horizontal plane when it is installed, there will be a secondary vibration that occurrs in the horizontal plane. The chances of these two frequencies being exactly the same are about as close to zero as you can get. When we tune all the vertical out of such a barrel, we usually have horizontal dispersion because the muzzle is stopped in the vertical plane but not in the horizontal. With such a barrel, you can tune the vertical out but you then have horizontal; tune the horizontal out and you have vertical. So what is the answer?

The best course of action is to re-index the barrel a quarter turn and 'hide' the curve in the vertical plane; however, I recently discovered another way to accomplish the same thing with the tuner.

A few weeks ago, I had just such a barrel on my 220 Beggs HV rifle. I found that if I moved the tuner out one additional turn into the second window and did my vertical tuning in that window, the problem went away. Hope this helps you understand what is happening.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Jeff Welker said:
Gene:

This is my first year shooting 100/200 BR and am willing to consider anything that would help my aggs. Is your tuner setup only intended to work with the 6mm Beggs, or could it work with my 6PPC? Do you have a photo of your tuner and how it attaches to the barrel?

I am working to get some free flights on SW Airlines and might just take you up on your offer for some work in your tunnel. Maybe you could PM or Email me offline with additional information.

Thanks;

Jeff
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Hi Jeff

Welcome aboard the benchrest bandwagon. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have during the past twenty years. It's a fascinating study and the people of benchrest are among the finest you will meet anywhere. Have fun!

My tuner will work on your 6ppc the same as it does on my rifles. You will find a nice article and photos of my products, services and facility at 6mmbr.com.

I hope you can come for a visit soon; I promise, you won't regret the trip.



Gene Beggs
 
(QUOTE=BJS6) Thanks Gene, that was what I was meaning. You set the tuner to shoot at say 1000 feet in the practice and then when the DA reads say 1500 feet you can predict the tuner setting needed to keep the rifle shooting.

(GB) That is correct Bryce.


(BJS6) That said, if you are at different ranges but same DA readings will the same tuner setting work. Say your last group at range A was at a DA of 1000 feet and a certain setting worked well. Two weeks later you are at a different range and the DA is also 1000 feet, would the rifle still be in tune if you hadn't altered the tuner from the last shoot ?? I am assuming that it would likely not be, the DA only working as a reference relative to another DA reading on the same day ???

(GB) Bryce, that's a good question; I am not sure. Logic would suggest that if DA was 1000 feet in both cases, the tuner setting would be the same, but we will just have to try it and see.


(BJS6) One other thing - brass is cheap, does anybody go to the line with say 20 rounds at their expected good load and another 20 at say 0.2 - 0.3 grains lighter and another 20 at 0.2 - 0.3 grains heavier powder weight ?? It does seem a bit unusual but it would give an even quicker fix to being out of tune than tweaking a tuner. You could fire a few sighters and if you had some vertical fire three of whichever load seems to be called for and see if they are better, if so then shoot the group with those. It would be a little more work in keeping the ammo on hand but I can't see why it wouldn't be a practical approach.

Bryce[/QUOTE]


(GB) Yes, this method works fine and many shooters do just that. At one time I followed this practice but now prefer to use only my tuner, never changing the load. To me, it's just less hassle and I'm always looking for ways to simplify things. I guess being lazy is not all bad; huh?

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
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