New to neck turnin in 6ppc...

J

JDumas

Member
I just recieved my new Neck turnin kit for 6ppc an have spent the better part of the evenin tryin to setup the turner for 6ppc (obviously :)), but am havin a bit of difficulty. I've ran a few cases through the expander mandrel an am tryin to setup for the cut, but when I attempt to run the expanded case up the mandrel... it stops an sticks nowhere near the cutter an I am tryin to treat this sucker with kid gloves but am about ready to tap it with a plastic hammer an see it that works but don't wanna mess up anymore brass than necessary an was wantin to get some suggestions/advice before I go any further. I'm usin Sinclair's new NT-4000 if that helps any.

Thanks in advance :)

JD
 
Expanding mandrel

JD: I've had the same problem, when using the original Sinclair NT-1000. One "solution" was to run the case neck over the mandrel, making sure you're all the way to the stop shoulder, then pausing for several seconds before removing it. There may (?) be some spring-back if you run it in and out quickly? When I did that, case necks were still a snug fit on the turning mandrel, but was doable. Maybe the expanding mandrel is slightly undersized? I personnally would call Sinclair and dump the problem in their lap. They are excellent in their help. Also, measure the O.D. of the expander and compare to the O.D. of the turning mandrel. Do you have the required .001" difference? Ah, the joys of outside neck turning.
 
John
I have a older Sinclair turner and the mandrels can be switched on it. Is it possible they put the turning mandrel in the expanding mandrel holder?

Glenn B
 
Thnx Shuster...

f d shuster said:
JD: I've had the same problem, when using the original Sinclair NT-1000. One "solution" was to run the case neck over the mandrel, making sure you're all the way to the stop shoulder, then pausing for several seconds before removing it. There may (?) be some spring-back if you run it in and out quickly? When I did that, case necks were still a snug fit on the turning mandrel, but was doable. Maybe the expanding mandrel is slightly undersized? I personnally would call Sinclair and dump the problem in their lap. They are excellent in their help. Also, measure the O.D. of the expander and compare to the O.D. of the turning mandrel. Do you have the required .001" difference? Ah, the joys of outside neck turning.
Click to expand...

Now I think I'm screwed to a point anyway..., I let that sucker sit a bit too long maybe because now she's stuck bigtime. I tried usin everything short of pliers to remove er an to no avail, I know the case will be moved to fouler territory so any advice/suggestion on gettin er out safely w/o messin up the turner.

Thanks again

JD
 
Use a paint stripper heat gun or a good hair drier and heat the brass until it loosens up. It sounds like the expander mandrel and the turning mandrel are mixed or are not matched, the expander should be about 1 thou larger. Lube the turning mandrel with a good lube before trying to turn the brass or even expanding, I use imperial sizing lube for both operations and go slow.
 
Thnx John...

JohnVm said:
Use a paint stripper heat gun or a good hair drier and heat the brass until it loosens up. It sounds like the expander mandrel and the turning mandrel are mixed or are not matched, the expander should be about 1 thou larger. Lube the turning mandrel with a good lube before trying to turn the brass or even expanding, I use imperial sizing lube for both operations and go slow.
Click to expand...



I'll give that a try..., I was just hopin I wouldn't have had ta buy a new mandrel which it appears I don't have to. As far as the mandrels bein mixed up..., that's kinda what I thought so I went back over the invoice item number found the mandrel that was marked same as item # an put it in the right place cause one mandrel was marked..., an one wasn't (hence the marked one appeared to be the expander), but I had em mixed around :eek:, but even after that was fixed..., still had same problem, but once I heat up the brass an remove it, I'll be sure an slow down instead of tryin to play neck turner pit crew an rushin the process. Now..., as far as lube..., I'm usin Shooters choice FP-10 lube..., now you say to lube the whole mandrel or just certain sections? What I'm basically tryin to accomplish is to do the setup by hand..., then when all measurments are correct..., do it by drill.

Thnx again.

JD
 
Have you measured the mandrels?

I expand twice. And full length size in between. Run at moderate speed and don't pause at the top.

For expanding I lube the insides of the necks with FP-10. When I'm ready to turn I lube the turning mandrel with FP-10. I have tried other oils and Imperial wax but I think FP-10 makes the work easier.
If there is too much oil on the mandrel the first case won't go on easily. Rotate the case while pushing it up the mandrel to spread the oil and when it sticks, pull back and try again.
 
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JD, are you using a Sinclair expander? Most turning tools have their expander mandrel and turning mandrels matched to a certain size. (They don't all expand to the exact same size from brand to brand, but they match within brands).

If you did not order the optional carbide mandrel for the turner, it will be important to use a good lube on the mandrel.
 
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Viper8 said:
Have you measured the mandrels?

I expand twice. And full length size in between. Run at moderate speed and don't pause at the top.

For expanding I lube the insides of the necks with FP-10. When I'm ready to turn I lube the turning mandrel with FP-10. I have tried other oils and Imperial wax but I think FP-10 makes the work easier.
If there is too much oil on the mandrel the first case won't go on easily. Rotate the case while pushing it up the mandrel to spread the oil and when it sticks, pull back and try again.
Click to expand...

I just measured the mandrels an there is .6thousandth difference accordin to my calipers.
 
JerrySharrett said:
JD, are you using a Sinclair expander? Most turning tools have their expander mandrel and turning mandrels matched to a certain size. (They don't all expand to the exact same size from brand to brand, but they match within brands).

If you did not order the optional carbide mandrel for the turner, it will be important to use a good lube on the mandrel.
Click to expand...

I'm using both for each process..., the expander for the expanding process an the carbide mandrel for the turning process. What I'm fearin is that even though I lubed both the case an mandrel, I may not have used enough lube which is what has caused my dilemma :mad:.

JD
 
JDumas said:
I'm using both for each process..., the expander for the expanding process an the carbide mandrel for the turning process. What I'm fearin is that even though I lubed both the case an mandrel, I may not have used enough lube which is what has caused my dilemma :mad:.
JD
Click to expand...
With a carbide turning mandrel it takes just a thin film of lube. RCBS case lube, STP, etc., don't depend too much on a mandrel lube like Imperial wax, etc. They don't have any EP (Extreme Pressure) ingredients.

When the turning mandrel starts getting warm, stop and let it cool. A moderate temperature rise can expand the mandrel quite a bit.
 
Thanks again guys....

I spoke with Bob at Sinclair an after describing my problem he advised to me that there is a possibility that they sent me the wrong mandrel an to ship it back to them an they would fix the issue..., can't beat service like that :) An next time i'll know to slow down!!! :rolleyes:


Thanks again guys :cool:


JD
 
Jdumas...the Sinclair is notorius for the expander failing to open the neck enough for the turn mandrel to enter and exit without binding/gauling...I usually suggest that when you get the neck turning kit that you buy some 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper...put the turning mandrel in your drill press chuck or drill and polish the turning mandrel evenly along the length checking occasionally that it will snuggly fit into the neck of an newly expanded case..
I can't count the number of shooters that experience this same problem with the Sinclair unit...I don't recall hearing of this problem with the K&M...
 
Mandrel, again

JD: If it's not too late, I would send both the expanding and turning mandrels back to Sinclair, and would leave the stuck case in place. When you said you measured and got .6 I'm assuming that's almost 1/2 of a thousandth(?). If so, you need a full .001" of clearance, the reason i suggested you send both to Sinclair: let them match them up for the proper fit. Could be the expander is slightly undersize and the turning is slightly over. All good advice as previously posted. eww1350: I've also never had that problem with the K&M, and prefer the way the expander mandrel is held in the body with the screw on top: better design.
 
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eww1350 said:
Jdumas...the Sinclair is notorius for the expander failing to open the neck enough for the turn mandrel to enter and exit without binding/gauling...I usually suggest that when you get the neck turning kit that you buy some 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper...put the turning mandrel in your drill press chuck or drill and polish the turning mandrel evenly along the length checking occasionally that it will snuggly fit into the neck of an newly expanded case..
I can't count the number of shooters that experience this same problem with the Sinclair unit...I don't recall hearing of this problem with the K&M...
Click to expand...
If he is using the carbide mandrel, it would take almost forever to polish it down at drill motor rpm and 600 wet/dry.
 
eww1350 said:
Jdumas...the Sinclair is notorius for the expander failing to open the neck enough for the turn mandrel to enter and exit without binding/gauling...I usually suggest that when you get the neck turning kit that you buy some 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper...put the turning mandrel in your drill press chuck or drill and polish the turning mandrel evenly along the length checking occasionally that it will snuggly fit into the neck of an newly expanded case..
I can't count the number of shooters that experience this same problem with the Sinclair unit...I don't recall hearing of this problem with the K&M...
Click to expand...

Well it sure is good to know that it's not just me who's ran into this problem :), I've packed up both mandrels (Carbide with case still intact) with a little note explainin the issue an asked to have both mandrels double checked regarding measurements an asked that they be the full .001 in clearance as suggested, an hope everything turns out fer the best.

Thanks again guys for all your helpful info :cool:

JD
 
similar problems with K&M expander

JD, I don't have the Sinclair set but did very recently start this same process and am using the K&M set (expander and turning tools). I have found it very difficult to get the necks expanded without going too far and hitting them up against the stop (cause of all the leverage I am applying and have a hard time stopping at just the right point). The K&M expander has a screw in the bottom to control the length of the stroke but if I am not very, very careful it nicks the mouth on the way up to the mandrel, so I have quit using it.

Someone suggested that I not use the Sinclair benchrest press and use something with a bit more leverage and it might help. I just picked up an RCBS JR and am going to try using that next time. Since it is a larger unit I am hoping that I can fine tune my stroke and quit ruining the brass by bumping the end. And, maybe even the geometrics of this unit will let me go back to the stop screw.

JD, as you know this process can be very frustrating .... I only managed 41 good pieces of fireforming brass out of an initial run of 50 ... not exactly the kind of yield numbers I want......
 
mikeearly said:
JD, I don't have the Sinclair set but did very recently start this same process and am using the K&M set (expander and turning tools). I have found it very difficult to get the necks expanded without going too far and hitting them up against the stop (cause of all the leverage I am applying and have a hard time stopping at just the right point). The K&M expander has a screw in the bottom to control the length of the stroke but if I am not very, very careful it nicks the mouth on the way up to the mandrel, so I have quit using it.

Someone suggested that I not use the Sinclair benchrest press and use something with a bit more leverage and it might help. I just picked up an RCBS JR and am going to try using that next time. Since it is a larger unit I am hoping that I can fine tune my stroke and quit ruining the brass by bumping the end. And, maybe even the geometrics of this unit will let me go back to the stop screw.

JD, as you know this process can be very frustrating .... I only managed 41 good pieces of fireforming brass out of an initial run of 50 ... not exactly the kind of yield numbers I want......
Click to expand...

Yeah..., I expect to loose a minimum of 5 (4 not counting the one in the cutting mandrel) during the entire process before switching over to drill turning.
 
mikeearly said:
JD, I don't have the Sinclair set but did very recently start this same process and am using the K&M set (expander and turning tools). I have found it very difficult to get the necks expanded without going too far and hitting them up against the stop (cause of all the leverage I am applying and have a hard time stopping at just the right point). The K&M expander has a screw in the bottom to control the length of the stroke but if I am not very, very careful it nicks the mouth on the way up to the mandrel, so I have quit using it.

Someone suggested that I not use the Sinclair benchrest press and use something with a bit more leverage and it might help. I just picked up an RCBS JR and am going to try using that next time. Since it is a larger unit I am hoping that I can fine tune my stroke and quit ruining the brass by bumping the end. And, maybe even the geometrics of this unit will let me go back to the stop screw.

JD, as you know this process can be very frustrating .... I only managed 41 good pieces of fireforming brass out of an initial run of 50 ... not exactly the kind of yield numbers I want......
Click to expand...
mikeearly, on using the screw stop on a K&M, simply grind or file the OD of the screw head down to where it fits easily in a 22 cal brass neck.

JD, you mention "drill turning". Just use a variable speed drill that has w 1/2" capacity chuck. I put a wrap of rubber electrical tape on the chuck to make it easy to tighten and loosen the brass without having to use a chuck key, or you can use an Albrecht style chuck.

1zd0sd5.jpg
 
I use a RCBS Rockchucker to expand necks for turning and limit the stoke on the expanding mandrel by putting a hose clamp on the lower section of the ram to stop upward travel at the desired point. Properly tightened the hose clamp never moves.
 
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