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hilblly

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New To Benchrest central, I'm Hooked!!!

Hi All
First time on this forum.
I have a couple of reloading questions.
I currently use a neck sizer and when my cases grow too much I use the FL die to set the shoulder back .002.
I was researching competion dies and stumble across the body die by Redding.
This seems like and excellent alternative to my method.
I don't shoot Benchrest (yet) but feel the overwhelming pull for more accuracy
Any and all suggestions would be welcome.
Is the body die and then the neck die a good idea, what do you all do.
Thanks
Mike
 
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Mike

The Redding Body Die is designed to full length size the body and bump the shoulder while leaving the neck portion un-touched.

Many shooters use the body die in conjunction witha neck sizing bushing die, such as the Redding Competitin Neck Sizer. However, many shooters have aquired, (or built), dies that icorporates the entire operation in one die. That is, the die full length sizes, bumps the shoulder, de-caps the primer, and sizes the neck in one stroke of the handle.

Here is a tip from a Benchrest Shooter. Start full length sizing your cases from day one. As you have noted, sooner or later, you are going to have to full length size, and we, as Competition Shooters, have found there is a little bit of difference in the tune with full length sized cases and just neck sizing.

Plus, due to the nature of our Competition, you want cases that go in easy, and come out easy. Full length sizing facilitates this.

It is an old wives tale that says neck sizing is more accurate. Benchrest Shooters shoot the most accurtate Rifles on the Planet. I feel safe in saying that the majority full length size from day one.......jackie
 
Mike ...

hilblly said:
Hi All
First time on this forum.
I have a couple of reloading questions.
I currently use a neck sizer and when my cases grow too much I use the FL die to set the shoulder back .002.
I was researching competion dies and stumble across the body die by Redding.
This seems like and excellent alternative to my method.
I don't shoot Benchrest (yet) but feel the overwhelming pull for more accuracy
Any and all suggestions would be welcome.
Is the body die and then the neck die a good idea, what do you all do.
Thanks
Mike
Click to expand...

I use a Full Length sizing die with a neck bushing .001" or .002" smaller than the outside neck diameter of my loaded cartridge. I push the shoulder back no more than .001". The Redding Type S Full Bushing Die and a Wilson Micrometer Seating Die would be a good combo. Art
 
jackie schmidt said:
It is an old wives tale that says neck sizing is more accurate. Benchrest Shooters shoot the most accurtate Rifles on the Planet. I feel safe in saying that the majority full length size from day one.......jackie
Click to expand...

This is true from a certain point of view. We have proven FL sizing doesn't affect accuracy in the br world and most the good aggs shot today come from brass that has been FL sized. But when we try and make this just as true in the non-br world because it works for us, we make a possible mistake. You see, our guns are made with the dimensions of everything from the brass to the dies to the chambers in minimum tolerances. We know that our brass is "X" dimension, therefore the chambers/reamers have to be "X+1" and the dies have to be "X +1 minus .5" and everything will work great. But for basically every other kind of gun on the planet, the dimensions are not such an exact science. Variations galore exist in the myriad of components one can select and the result is that you may get a piece of equipment that isn't quite going to work with your other components. If this problem ends up being a discrimination in brass to chamber to die fit, then making any hard, fast rules become tricky business.

In other words, what works for BR guns won't always work for hunting guns etc. When we say FL size, we are talking about dies that barely touch and squeeze in only the necessary amount to make it work again. .001-.002" of engineered "bump back" on the shoulder is a pretty small amount so it will not noticeably change group size. But a regular die (made to fit any make of brass out there) and a factory chamber (usually oversized) and brand x brass off the shelf might make for a fit so bad that FL sizing can actually damage accuracy. In these instances, neck sizing might be the only way to get any accuracy at all. But eventually, the brass will have to be FL sized, but if the luck of the draw isn't with you, your die might not even FL size your brass at even if you think it is!

To date, I have had more than 2 dozen factory dies of just about every brand name that had to be cut off just to be able to truly FL size the case! Then I got smart and just had shortened shellholders made. Since that idea, I've easily used them in another 2 or 3 dozen instances just to make the brass fit again. I share this just to show how bad tolerances have laxed in this industry. Only custom made, bench rest quality components can warrant any hard, fast rules for dimensional matters.
 
In answer to the original poster:

Yes, if neck sizing is giving good accuracy and you want to continue with it, then you may just get a Redding Body die and use it only when you need to or use it everytime.

For a lot of my custom rifles, I bought the Redding Comp deluxe die sets for them back when they didn't offer bushing FL sizers at all. So if you wanted to use bushings to size the neck, you had to also have a body die to make the brass fit back in the chamber eventually. So I have many rifles that I simply neck size until I have to run them through the body die and it works great. And on two guns I own, I run the brass through the neck die and the body die every time I reload. It is indeed slower than just having a FL bushing die, but it works just as well in the end result.

Nowadays, you can get a comp seater and bushing FL die so it might be a non-issue.
 
hilblly said:
Hi All
Is the body die and then the neck die a good idea, what do you all do.
Thanks
Mike
Click to expand...

If you want to use Redding, and they are a really good bunch to deal with, why not use the Redding Competition Die set if you are shooting a case they make dies for?
http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/compdies.html

As to neck sizing only, that method has been in use for decades and it does improve accuracy as long as you are shooting a good, tight, bolt action, and are not shooting chamber expanding loads. Shooting moderate loads, in non-benchrest guns, is always best for accuracy. I've never seen a "factory" gun shoot its best at maximum loads.

What hills you from Hill Billy??
 
Thanks all for the input.
Answers to the two questions are: The caliber is 270 win, And I hail from the Ruby Valley in Southwest Montana, Town of Sheridan.
After posting this thread, I found another thread dealing with the same questions. So I went to Redding's website and looked the FL S die, looks good.
This is in fact an old factory rifle and I may try both the FL S and the Neck sizer with bushing die. Although I guess the FL S can be set with a bushing to size the neck to exacting specs. But doesn't it size the whole neck and not just a percentage? Can the bushing in the S die be set not to size the whole neck?
What in the opinion of everyone else are the best competion dies?
Thanks
Mike
 
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Mike ...

hilblly said:
Can the bushing in the S die be set not to size the whole neck?
Click to expand...

In the Redding Full Length Type S Bushing Die I don't believe it's possible. However, to get a definitive answer, call Redding at 607-753-3331 and ask for "JAY" in their Technical Department. He knows the equipment. Art
 
I'm gonna throw something in the mix here. I love the 270 Win. I've shot literally thousands of rounds down the tubes of many rifles in that caliber.

You can approach this Redding Type "s" bushing die a few differenet ways and please let me explain.

1. The die does come with an expander button. What I recommend is if your using regular 270 brass (that has runout), then use the expander button, just find a bushing that barely presses the neck small enough for the expander to barely open it back up. You will minimize working the brass plus pushing the brass runout to the outside...thus making straighter rounds. I mentioned in a thread on this site on how to set up Full Length dies with expanders....please read it.

2. Using 270 Win brass...you can take the expander off (as it usually comes with the die installed, and replace it with the non expanding connector and then let the bushing size the neck....it will push the runout of the neck to the inside and it will show on bullet runout.

3. This is what I do....I find thick 30-06 brass and press it down with a 270 Die. I then check and see what the clearance is with the downsized brass to the chamber neck. What I'm trying to accomplish here is a tighter fit so the brass doesn't work harden as much and produce straighter rounds. I hopefully have very minimal if any clearance with the brass so I then Neck Turn it to just fit perfectly and then I do not use the expander on the Type "S" die. YOU DO HAVE TO BE CAREFUL for two reasons. One....you don't want to shoot the 270 rnds in a 30-06 because you won't hit squat. Secondly and most importantly...don't try to use a 30-06 in the 270 by mistake because you just look at the bottom of the round and assume you loaded it as a 270 Win. I do this procedure with many differnent rounds (or have in the past) like a 308 to a 243, etc. but I keep them in seperate boxes VERY CLEARLY MARKED WHAT THEY ARE. And I neve do them for someone else.

Hovis
 
Yes...

hilblly said:
Thanks all for the input.
Answers to the two questions are: The caliber is 270 win, And I hail from the Ruby Valley in Southwest Montana, Town of Sheridan.
After posting this thread, I found another thread dealing with the same questions. So I went to Redding's website and looked the FL S die, looks good.
This is in fact an old factory rifle and I may try both the FL S and the Neck sizer with bushing die. Although I guess the FL S can be set with a bushing to size the neck to exacting specs. But doesn't it size the whole neck and not just a percentage? Can the bushing in the S die be set not to size the whole neck?
What in the opinion of everyone else are the best competion dies?
Thanks
Mike
Click to expand...

The answer is yes it can be adjusted to size only a portion of the neck; at least with my set. A clear set of instructions come with the die set.
 
I'm Doomed

I just got off the phone with the local machine shop(just happens to build 1000 yd BR rifles).
The hook is set and their reeling me in.
I am going to meet with him next week and discuss my options on a BR rifle.
He shoots a 6.5-47
I was thinking of a 6.5-284.
I hope my wife doesn't find out:eek:
I may have a new barrel put on the 270 also.
Mike
 
JerrySharrett said:
Shooting moderate loads, in non-benchrest guns, is always best for accuracy. I've never seen a "factory" gun shoot its best at maximum loads.
Click to expand...

Is this statement in the context of neck sizing or just in general? I ask because I would say easily more than half the guns I work on like top end loads, custom or factory. Not primer pocket blowout max but at the upper node near max anyway.
 
Mike ...

Virg is right. I pulled a copy of the instructions from my old Redding Type S Bushing Style Full Length Sizing Die. Under Introduction it says: "Partial resizing of the neck length can be accomplished by a simple adjustment of the decapping rod."

Also of note under "Additional Uses", is this statement: Body Die: "Simply removing the bushing, turns your die into a body die for those who wish to body size and bump shoulders without disturbing the neck diameter." A lot of versatility with this die! Art
 
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