New front locking rimfire action

I thought they where talking about the front locking system that when you chamber the round it would deform the bullet because bullet would be in the lands and when the bolt cam closes it would turn the whole case deforming the bullet and turning the case.
Click to expand...
Dan K your on the money, exactly the way I am thinking :)! Like I said earlier if there is a chance that it could happen and deform head why would you use it for competition ? Bleiker are the bench mark for front locking lug ISSF shooters. They use a bolt face that doesnt rotate, If you cant match or better a bleiker you won't get your foot in the door, Looks like a great sporter action

Cheers
Lowey
 
The cartridge is going to rotate as it engages the rifling.

The more the driving band is engraved the more degrees the cartridge rotates.
 
A front locker built like the German rifle of which I cannot think of the name, but the locking lugs retracted into the bolt on opening and out on closing , while expensive to build might work on a rimfire action. only the bolt end rotated. Upon opening the action the firing pin would be retracted before the bolt moved rearward. Also the front would not rotate at all. Seems like maybe the Weatherbys made in Germany used this type of action. It had three locking lugs as I recall. The bolt would have to be larger dia. to accomodate the lugs moving in and out. Max
 
DanK said:
I thought they where talking about the front locking system that when you chamber the round it would deform the bullet because bullet would be in the lands and when the bolt cam closes it would turn the whole case deforming the bullet and turning the case.
Click to expand...

Dan,

I follow your reasoning, but in practice it doesn't work that way unless your extractors or ejectors are too tight. Time Precision made a front locking lug rimfire action more than 20 years ago and it was not a problem with those actions. When the Time first came out that potential problem was discussed at length, many didn't buy them because they thought that would be a problem. It wasn't. Matter of fact the ARA Nats were won by a guy shooting a Time Precision.
 
"every top flight rimfire only pushes the bullet without rotating the the face of the bolt"

On my competition front-lug rimfire action, the boltface does rotate. I shoot this gun in ISSF competition and don't even think twice about the bullet rotation "issue". I was worried about it when I designed and built it, but it has turned out to be a non-issue. As a matter of my opinion only, I'd consider mine to be a "top flight" .22. Just because "every top flight rimfire" doesn't do it that way doesn't make yours wrong.

Good luck with your project! Don't let the naysayers keep you from doing what you think is right.

Eric U
 
There you have it I was wrong again :(! Eric I have seen you shoot and you are a true champion, You could most probably beat the rest of us if you used a sporting rifle :)? Do you think rotating the bolt head has given you an advantage ? when looking for a custom action I am looking for something to gain an advantage and tick all the box’s. I am defiantly not a naysayer ! I know for a fact how tough it is when making stuff everybody wants something different ! Bruce has asked for opinions on his action and I gave mine , although it appears misguided !

Cheers
Lowey
 
I don't think that a rotating bolt face gives an advantage, just no disadvantage...as long as the bolt face is baby bottom smooth. I do think there is something to front lugs though and having a rotating bolt face simplifies life when designing a front lug bolt.

Eric U
 
In the i980,s, Colt used a rifle mf,g by Saur in Germany that had front locking lugs that retracted into the bolt body when opened. Really expensive to mf,g I think, Might be an option in a rimfire, but I expect it would require a larger dia. bolt. Max
 
I have two Times with front locking lugs. Calfee I think was one of those who claimed the Time would have this problem. Whoever it was is wrong. A front rotating bolt doesn't have to rotate the bullet. The Time has a bit of play with the extractors so that the case is not gripped tight and does not rotate with the bolt head. The only way it could is if the distance from the bolt face to the rim of the chamber was the same or less than the case rim thickness so it pinched it (the old crush fit deal) or if the extractors gripped the case very tightly. Anyhow I have chambered and then extracted many rounds with no evidence of the bullet slipping in the case or chamber.
 
There is also the Fortner design action in Europe. Anschutz uses it in their biathlon rifles. It has the bolt with the ball-bearings that are pressed outward when closed, acting as front locking lugs...no bolt rotation required. It is a straight pull action. Push forward to close, pull back to open.

AHG/Anschutz also sells the F27A action, which is a big brother to the biathlon action. I don't know of anyone using one of those in competition though. I know that Steve B is trying to get one in operation, but was having shipping issues last I heard. One of the AMU shooters got one, but has yet to get it put into a stock.

Eric U
 
Max Shaffer said:
In the i980,s, Colt used a rifle mf,g by Saur in Germany that had front locking lugs that retracted into the bolt body when opened. Really expensive to mf,g I think, Might be an option in a rimfire, but I expect it would require a larger dia. bolt. Max
Click to expand...

The Colt Sauer used a system with 3 rear locking lugs that retracted into the bolt body, built hell for strong owned one in 25-06 and 375 H&H.
 
The rifle you are refering to is a Sauer and was made for a couple of years for the Colt company here in the US. The absolute smoothest action I ever operated. Expensive.....yes. When you could buy a high grade Browing for $600 the Colt Sauer was $900. This is a bolt design I have thought for a long time was perfect for a rimfire action! Nothing rotates and nothing moves!

Mike
Max Shaffer said:
A front locker built like the German rifle of which I cannot think of the name, but the locking lugs retracted into the bolt on opening and out on closing , while expensive to build might work on a rimfire action. only the bolt end rotated. Upon opening the action the firing pin would be retracted before the bolt moved rearward. Also the front would not rotate at all. Seems like maybe the Weatherbys made in Germany used this type of action. It had three locking lugs as I recall. The bolt would have to be larger dia. to accomodate the lugs moving in and out. Max
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top