New Design 22 Comp Rifle

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dksac2

Guest
I'm posting for a friend who is one one the best riflesmiths in the country.
This is a post to feel out top shooters.
How many would be interested in a brand new, American made premium 22 LR comp rifle that was Guarenteed to shoot under .2" at 50 yards. It would shoot way under .2", that is just the guarentee offered.
The quality of the action would be far better than anything we are seeing out there now.
He's looking at about $1850 base price for the basic rifle. Any option that you would want would be offered as well as custom fitting of the stock to you.

He's waiting on a new CNC machine and is very serious about building the best target rifle in 22 LR available.

Is there an interest in this price range for a basic rifle that would be the best that you have seen? You guys know well what it costs to accessorize a rifle. That cost would be in addition to the basic rifle.

He realizes that any rifle built would have to be proven on the field of fire, so the first prototype would be offered to one of the nations top compeditors to test and work with him to produce the ultimate comp rifle.

As a retired gunsmith myself, I have seen this guys work and he is a master machinest, he does work that amazes me. He is into doing the most precise machine work possible and settles for nothing but the best from himself. He set up to make any kind of stock that one may desire, adjustable or fixed.
I have no doubt that the old saying "If you built it, they will come" fits very well here.
He has been building long range Comp CF rifles and is burnt out on them, wants to get into a ground up custom 22 RF. One of his long range 338 Lapua rifles hold the unofficial worlds record of 10 shots into less than 24" @ 3000 yards, it was a club shoot, not an NRA shoot. This is the type of work this man does.
He is extreamly talented and wants to put his talet to work. He wants to make the best out there and that is his goal.

Is there an interest?
He would work with each shooter to produce the exact rifle that he wants down to the smalles detail.


Thanks, John K
 
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Put me on the list, hell I'v pissed more than that away on less eventful things. When will we see a proto type of this MADE IN THE USA SUPER DUPER BENCHREST 22.
Just as long as it shoots like you broadcast.

Semper fi
 
Pickles: The man did not say he was building a benchrest rifle. I suspect he wants to venture into the position game.

With Hall, Turbo, Falcon, Stiller,the new one on the way and a few others there are lots of rimfire benchrest actions to look at and model after. I suspect any of us would welcome a new killer rifle on the market. But as we all know the action is only part of the complete gun. A stock that rides properly in the bags/rest is important. It may need to make weight in some disciplines. Some of us like right bolt and left port (I suspect the position shooters are not as picky). It should load like a Swindlehurst, or at worst an A54. It should have lots of closing cam. Some will want a 6 o clock firing pin but killer ignition is all important no matter where the pin hits. It should have an integrated Davidson scope rail on top of the receiver. I would like to see either a Remington pattern or Anschutz pattern trigger available. It should have a square tang and be easy to bed properly with both screws in front of the trigger. And, finally it should be delivered fully tuned to shoot whatever speed/lot of ammo the buyer specifies. I wonder who is going to pick the barrel type for this "new" rifle? I suspect it will be up to the builder since he is the one making the accuracy promise. Okay, so I am dreaming, but why not ask for it since the question was laid on the table. bob
 
There is a lot to consider in building Comp rifles. Your suggestions are welcome and would be very much appriciated, especially if it's something that could be improved or you would like to see that is not available.

Thanks, John K
 
Is he making the action as well? How about you put a name to this guy and have him post like a big boy for himself. There are quite a few tech things you are glossing over or not fully understanding, and a direct conversation will make things go much better.

Action? Trigger? Tuner Design? Barrel? Weight Class (FYI there are weight classes in rimfire BR)

And most importantly and already pointed out; Ammo selection? I hope it comes with the line on 5 or more cases of this special ammo. Will it be Eley, Lapua, or RWS? What grade?

And if the "first prototype" is gonna be sent to a shooter, how many of these rimfire rifles have been built already to see that making this magical 0.2" on demand rifle possible.? Sounds like the "top" shooter is gonna be the R&D research guy in this deal.
 
I'm cheap so $1850 seems like alot JUST to shoot .2's (and that's between .2999999- .2000000 ). There are quite a few CMPs/ Sporters that cost a 1/3 the 1850 price and shoot in that range. What about AMMO/LOT sensitivity. If the Smith is well known why doesn't he post himself or why the secrecey of who he is ? ....BTW these are questions and observations not to be taken as any flames.
 
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The Smith is Scott Null from S&S Sporting. He's very well known for his super accurate long range CF rifles, he builds a lot off Savage actions.
He and another Smith that I don't really know are testing the waters to see if there would be interest. He has not built his first action yet as he's waiting for a new CNC machine to arrive. He hates the net and knows I look at a lot of sites, so he just asked me to put out some feelers.
He is well known with CF rifles and is looking at the 22 RF as something different. He has a lot of experience with the 22's, just has not built his own from the ground up.

He is a master machinest as well as a master riflesmith. At this point he's looking at interest. He's the kind of guy with his IQ off the charts and is the best smith I have ever seen. Were he to build a rifle, it would be an excellent one.
I need to discuss a few things about this with him and find out where he is going with this. It is a very expensive to start a new custom gun from the ground up.
You have to look at the basic action, then barrels and of course the stocks, weight limits, ammo, tuners, ammo types and so much more.
This was just something he asked me to do for him, so I posted. I'm sure he would start with right hand action and later left hand actions.
He is capible of building an outstanding rifle, the .2" was only a minimum guarentee.
I'm not a comp shooter, so I will pass this info onto him, he already know what has been mentioned, he was so darn busy when he asked me to do this I really didn't have the chance to ask more.

Thanks Guys, John K

Thanks, John K
 
John K. We all appreciate the interest any smith might show in our game. I do have a question for you tho. And, no I am not trying to insult you with this. You use the term comp shooter. I for one do not know what that means. I have a suspicion, but that ain't gonna cut it. Please be a bit more specific. This forum is geared toward bench rest. There are others that are geared to position shooters ie those guys who put on tight jackets, use slings, lay on their belly and use metallic sights and sometimes scopes. The rifles for that discipline and others like it are vastly different than those we build for bench rest. Us bench resters would never think to hold, and some of us never even touch our rifle when it is in the bags ready to fire. 90% or more of us use at least 36X scopes. That 3 inch forearm riding in the bags, and the rifle weighing 10.5 pounds or more makes it hard to shoot without a rest/bag combo even if we wanted to. Oh, and by the way a br rifle shooting .2 avg needs to grow up to get into the winners circle most of the time.

We don't want to confuse your friend the smith by feeding him desires that might not be applicable to what he wants to build. Please, what is a comp shooter? bob
 
Bob, I believe he means competion (comp shooter) shooter, Then again there might be a comp shooter catogory. This is all still neew to me. See you at the Barn
Walt
 
I guess that I have been under a rock. I haven't heard of him. Regardless of his abilities, he has a big learning curve. Most of the top accuracy gunsmiths are not machinest. I'm a machinest and CF riflesmith, but to stay on the short side of the learning curve I'm sending my 40XR receiver to Richard Gorham to barrel.
Butch
 
John, any quality entry into the world of .22 BR would be welcome however I will tell you, more than one master machinist/cf gunsmith has been brought to his knees by these little bastards, it just does not translate real well and there's a learning curve. I'd suspect the best thing your pal could do would be to go to a match or two and actually shoot a pro built gun.
 
John,

When Butch stated "big learning curve", that might be the most understated thing I have seen here in quite a while.

A few things:

1. Having a CNC machine just means you spent money. They will never make a poor design good, and having one is not impressive.

2. Before you make metal chip #1, go to a big rimfire BR match, like nationals and take a look around. Talk with the guys, get to know what is being used in the field and how they perform.

3. Please stop telling us how great / smart / tallented he is. It adds nothing to the value of your posts, and probably turns off more people that you can imagine. He may be the most skilled guy to throw chips, but let his guns do the talking. Same for "Unofficial Records;" they mean nothing.

4. If you are looking for some traction in this sport, you are gonna have to compete. Every excellent rimfire smith has or does currently compete in rimfire benchrest. They compete because they love the sport and learn something everytime they shoot a match. If you don't know the sport, it will be very hard to build a rifle tailored towards it.

5. Check out your competition. Get a Hall, Turbo, Falcon, 40X, Anschutz, ect actions and see how they are built. If you are talking about his experience in working with Savage rimfire actions, they are non-existant in these circles. They are just too poor of quality and can't be made to shoot reliabily. Some of us have toyed with them just for grins, but they, like CZ's and others are not taken seriously. He can lap all the barrels he wants, but they won't shoot with a custom.

6. Start learning about match rimfire ammo, and to do that, you have to start shooting it. You need to develop a understanding to be able to point out good lots versus bad lots, and then realize the game we all play - chasing down good ammunition. Might want to get Dan Killough's number on speed dial.

7. It may be a good idea to built off of a Hall or Turbo first, just to see if he can build a top level BR gun. This way, when his own action comes out, he will know where to look for problems (and there will be some nits to sort out).
 
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Instead of pillorying the guy

Why not encourage him to make a couple of these rifles and see what they are. He allready has bought the machine. let's see what comes out of it. There is no point in saying he can't do it before we see what he makes, is there?

All he asked for was if anyone was iterested. Why wouldn't almost everyone be interested just for curiosity sake? He wasn't looking for an order from each of us the way I read the post. If the rifles don't perform, nobody will buy them. Simple enough to me anyway. So I say, bring em on!
 
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Make up a couple of rifles and come to some shoots. Shoot the rifles himself and let others shoot the 'spare'.
I suspect that will make or break him quickly.
 
there is no magic in gun smithing, paying attenion to detail and tolorance is what makes a great rifle.
 
is this the same guy lapping the factory barrels on savage rimfire rifles over on rimfire central? it really don't take much to make a center fire savage shoot good. anybody with a go guage and tape can make one shoot better. i figured the accu-triggers out about 3 years ago. they are so easy to get down into single oz's on centerfire and rimfires it should be a crime and i'm sure it is!!!
 
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