n133 ppc load

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martin22250

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How many 6 ppc shooters are loading 30 plus grains of n133? I started out shooting light 28 ish grains, shot decent at 100 yards, poorly at 200. switched to 29 ish grains seemed to improve some at 200. Starting pushing them harder with 30+ grains, and my 200 yards groups seemed to really improve. I been shooting the berger column bullet. Seems hard to believe that app. 100 fps could cut the wind that much better. Am i just a bad wind reader or does the columns like to be pushed hard.
 
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Never heard of anybody shooting those bullets but regular BR bullets like a node a shade above 30 so i'm guessing you hit it. If you back down to the next node down it'll make life lots easier and you wont see a difference on paper
 
OK, need to ask...or look

Somebody please tell me, or tell me where to look, to find out what exactly is a "column" bullet. Better asked, what's the difference in a column bullet and a regular old bullet? All I know about the column bullet is that Berger has them and that they are shooting well.

I don't think that within the typical velocities of BR bullets that the speed is as important as the tuning. Try to find a load that shoots well enough to win and not have some sort of problem during a match. You can make new cases for the next match if you need to and that's small potatoes when compared to placing mid-pack with zero problems - over and over. Now and then, you'll find a barrel that likes something that you can't control easily or not at all. Just live with it, and the trophies as well, until it's gone.
 
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Wilbur said:
Somebody please tell me, or tell me where to look, to find out what exactly is a "column" bullet. Better asked, what's the difference in a column bullet and a regular old bullet? All I know about the column bullet is that Berger has them and that they are shooting well.

I don't think that within the typical velocities of BR bullets that the speed is as important as the tuning. Try to find a load that shoots well enough to win and not have some sort of problem during a match. You can make new cases for the next match if you need to and that's small potatoes when compared to placing mid-pack with zero problems - over and over. Now and then, you'll find a barrel that likes something that you can't control easily or not at all. Just live with it, and the trophies as well, until it's gone.
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First I've heard of them.

This is what it says on Berger website;

"This bullet is the new Berger 6mm BR Column. You’ll notice that there is no listed weight. This is deliberate since the overall weight is not as important as the overall balance of the bullet, which is achieved with a specific internal lead column height. Due to slight variations in copper and lead material batches, one lot may weigh 64.8 gr while another lot might weigh 65.1 gr or 64.6 gr. So long as the column of lead is the correct height to achieve the desired balance, the overall weight is a by-product."

http://www.bergerbullets.com/new-berger-6mm-br-column-bullet/
 
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Berger "Column" Bullet

Wilbur said:
Somebody please tell me, or tell me where to look, to find out what exactly is a "column" bullet. Better asked, what's the difference in a column bullet and a regular old bullet? All I know about the column bullet is that Berger has them and that they are shooting well.

I don't think that within the typical velocities of BR bullets that the speed is as important as the tuning. Try to find a load that shoots well enough to win and not have some sort of problem during a match. You can make new cases for the next match if you need to and that's small potatoes when compared to placing mid-pack with zero problems - over and over. Now and then, you'll find a barrel that likes something that you can't control easily or not at all. Just live with it, and the trophies as well, until it's gone.
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They simply use the same cores for all jacket lots(6mm .790/.825") and do not fuss with having to make a discreet core for each lot of 6mm jackets to hit a target overall bullet weight.
 
Bill Scheider said:
They simply use the same cores for all jacket lots(6mm .790/.825") and do not fuss with having to make a discreet core for each lot of 6mm jackets to hit a target overall bullet weight.
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From the description posted on the Berger site I would think they are cutting a specific core length to maintain bullet balance with varying jackets.

"This bullet is the new Berger 6mm BR Column. You’ll notice that there is no listed weight. This is deliberate since the overall weight is not as important as the overall balance of the bullet, which is achieved with a specific internal lead column height. Due to slight variations in copper and lead material batches, one lot may weigh 64.8 gr while another lot might weigh 65.1 gr or 64.6 gr. So long as the column of lead is the correct height to achieve the desired balance, the overall weight is a by-product."

http://www.bergerbullets.com/new-berger-6mm-br-column-bullet/

Now you've got me wondering. They do sound like a good bullet to test out.

I think if I ever did get around to trying some out it would be with some other powder than N-133. It's always been one of the worst, if not the worst powders I've tried, and all the while I see others being successful with it. ?
 
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Hard to keep all those components seperate when youre dumping them into a hopper from a forklift mounted dumpster for a machine to run em
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Never heard of anybody shooting those bullets but regular BR bullets like a node a shade above 30 so i'm guessing you hit it. If you back down to the next node down it'll make life lots easier and you wont see a difference on paper
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It appears Boyer listed them and possibly used them at the IBS Nats in 2012. as we all know, what gets listed on an equipment list may or may not be what is actually used.

From another thread linked below:
Fergus Bailey said:
Go to http://internationalbenchrest.com/results/group/2012/Union%20County/Nationals/GroupNationals.php and scroll to the bottom of the page, you will see the columns listed in Tony’s equipment in 2 of the 4 classes of the IBS Nationals.

In Australia 2 weeks back, one of our best shooters used them at a match without ever having shot them previously, and shot a teen agg the first time out.

The first delivery of column bullets to hit Australia sold out pretty much by the time it arrived in country. Go ahead and put in your order for the next batch before that gets sold out too.
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Wilbur said:
Somebody please tell me, or tell me where to look, to find out what exactly is a "column" bullet. Better asked, what's the difference in a column bullet and a regular old bullet? All I know about the column bullet is that Berger has them and that they are shooting well.

I don't think that within the typical velocities of BR bullets that the speed is as important as the tuning. Try to find a load that shoots well enough to win and not have some sort of problem during a match. You can make new cases for the next match if you need to and that's small potatoes when compared to placing mid-pack with zero problems - over and over. Now and then, you'll find a barrel that likes something that you can't control easily or not at all. Just live with it, and the trophies as well, until it's gone.
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Wilbur, here is a thread talking about the column after it was released. Pretty good read.

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?84603-Column-Projectiles

Bill Scheider said:
They simply use the same cores for all jacket lots(6mm .790/.825") and do not fuss with having to make a discreet core for each lot of 6mm jackets to hit a target overall bullet weight.
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Maybe, but that’s not how the design was described. See the link above that I listed for Wilbur.

I’ve mostly used the Column for the last two seasons, primarily because that’s all I could get at the time. They seem to shoot fine. I have shot my best, smallest aggs with the column but that may be more of a result of getting better at tuning too.
 
Equipment lists have been part of the sport for a very long time. As to the accuracy of those lists, well I guess that what is listed in the actual components of the load might have been what the shooter started out with, but is not necessarily what they finished with. Some shooters use a different load at 200 yards, and many of us change the powder charge during the day - weather dependent.
I first scored some Vit N133 from the Swedish shooters after the 1995 WBC in Brisbane. (They just walked in through Customs with it in their carry on bags and no one noticed - do not try this today!!). The load in those days was around 28 grains and a 68 grain bullet......and it shot well.
Nowadays that's all out the window. I know that 29.2gns is popular and I have used that, but prefer just a little more at around 29.6gn. Yes, I have gone higher - as much as 30gns in one barrel - and I know of shooters in this country that go to nearly 31 gns (how do they get it in the case???). Quite frankly, I do not subscribe to 'grenade loads', but to each his own. I just don't like destroying equipment in the search for higher velocity - if I am somewhere around 3350fps, that fine by me.

Column bullets??? Yes, we have had them in Australia for some time now. I have shot them in some matches and they are OK. A few weeks ago, Stuart Elliott (who is the Berger importer) shot a .1556 agg at the Harry Madden Memorial shoot - this was done over a stiff load of Benchmark. Columns seem to shoot better when driven hard.
 
One thing about equipment lists for the Nationals is that the equipment data may be filled out months ahead of time when the registration is sent in. The competitors who place in the top 20 may or may not update their equipment list if they have made changes which more than likely they have.
 
not sure how accurate what im going to post is, but I have heard that one of the best short range ppc shooters of all time uses well over 30gr of n133.
I have been doing a little playing on my home range, and I can get 32gr of 133 in a standard ppc case with some patients and lots of tapping on the brass. slow pour, and long drop tube as well. What I found was good accuracy, but really no better than any other in tune load. I also found that 32 gr of 133 will loosen the primer pocket in about 2 firings. None the less, I am interested enough that I am having a reamer made so I can easily shoot 32 to 33.5 grains of 133. We will see what happens in time. lee
 
33,5?? Easily? :confused:

Are you still talking about a normal sized 6ppc case? If so, I for sure would buy as much if that lot of n133 that I could because it must be one strange lot...

I have loaded the 'upper-upper window' with a handful of different lots, and getting consistent seating lengths with much more than 31grs have never been possible. And that's with loong tubes, slow pours and even vibrating of the case.

If you are actually getting 32+ grs of n133 into a normal ppc case, and have the bullet more than .025" in the case, please let me know how you do it! :)

Peter
 
Tried 30.2-.4 a few times.
Last time a few guys said it was working IBS Nats. 2013. We were shooting the same bullets. I think. 200y. last day. let's try it out.
Wow. Was that a big group. sighter was the same.
 
I have gotten 32gr of 133 in a normal ppc case. seating a bullet isn't easy as powder spills into the seat die. Not an ideal situation by any means. very possible though. I dry, then humidify my n133 so that may or may not make any difference???
the design I am working on will be a little different than the standard 6ppc. close, but different. part of the fun!! I have a machine shop, and a 200 yard range all on the same property, so I have the idea location to try other ideas than the same old follow the leader stuff. Not that there is anything wrong with sticking to the basics, or the Norm. Ill post more about my project after the dies are made. Lee
 
Cecil Tucker did something similar a couple of years ago.

he took Grendel brass, sized it down to 6mm leaving it long. basically a ~80 thou long ppc.

i don't remember the exact numbers but he was able to get something around 34gr 133 in it and it would send the 68gr bullets something crazy like 3600.

there's no free lunch. brass was toasted after a few firings.
 
The Column bullets are the closest to the great custom handmade bullets that I have seen. I used them while testing the new LT-32 powder and they were spectacular in a 13.5 twist Krieger anda Marsh action. Here are some of the groups that I shot with them.
 

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If you don't think that the Column has potential, check out Tony Boyer's results in the 2012 IBS National Championship. Good shooting...James
 
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