My Experience with a Kreiger barrel ..............

R

RoyB

Member
The other night I trued up a Remington 700 action and rebarreled to 22BR...........

I chamber through the headstock and wanted to try Gordy's method of aligning the bore to the lathe and letting the muzzle be as it may in the spider.

First I rough trued the barrel in the spider just to get things in a relative straight direction. Then using a thick piece of copper wire in my six jaw, Tru-Adjust, I indicated the bore to zero RO.

I inserted a Dave Kiff Range Rod and started to take measurements near the barrel and 4" from the barrel. To my surprise, there was zero movement of the indicator as it rode across the top of the range rod, no matter where the barrel was rotated. This tells me that the first few inches of this particular barrel was perfectly straight.

With the barrel turned, threaded and chambered, I flipped it around to the muzzle end for crowning and a Vias Muzzle brake install.

With the bore indicated to zero RO, using the range rod, once again I could not detect any movement!

So now I suspect that I'm not doing something right. How could both ends of this bore be that straight?

When I spun the barrel in the lathe, looking through the bore, it was clear that this barrel actually was extremely straight. Very little wobble was observed.
 
RoyB
If you are not moving the range rod in or out of the barrel when you are taking these two readings I think what you are measuring is the truness of the tail stock to the chuck.
I believe Gordy's method is inserting the range rod with the proper bushing to the area held by the chuck, adjust to zero run out here with the chuck jaws. Then move the range rod around 4" to 5" behind the chuck and adjust here to zero using the spider. Check each of these locations a few times untill both positions are as close to zero run out as possable.
Hope this helps.
Bill
 
I feel you need to hang a weight on it to preload it in one direction so any movement can be detected with an indicator dial on top. I don't think you can get an accurate reading with the indicator without this weight.
 
I have a Kreiger barrel in my lathe now. It is very straight to the eye. Borescope inspection show no flaws. Slugged barrel and feels very consistant. It seems a little tighter right at the muzzel which is good. My range rod will only go about 2 1/2 inches into the barrel as the barrel is a tight .218. I used a .216 bushing. The rod itself is .218 starting about 3 inches from the end. I have indicated both ends of the barrel to .000. The range rods shows about .001 out. I will adjust until the range rod reads .000. Of course I realize .000 is perfection and I understand there is some movement although my instrument is not perfect. This is a close as I can get it and I feel this is good for my purposes. The prairie dogs will not know the difference. I do not do any work for anyone else. It seems my rifles keep me busy.
 
There seems to be some confusion in this thread. Gordy does not use a range rod. He uses a straight rod that fits into the bore loosely. He uses a snug fitting bushing on the end of this straight rod to indicate several places in the bore. A range rod has a taper to it and locks into the bore. The range rod can not be moved any further into the bore, than the taper allows. Using Gordy's method a weight should be used to eleviate any movement of the bushing as it rides on the lands. Gordy is also holding the straight rod in his tailstock. The range rod is sticking out of the bore and is solidly in the bore.
 
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Thanks Bob,

That describes the method I was using perfectly. The tail stock is not involved in any way. Simply a barrel in the headstock, I cut 1/4" off the chamber end with a parting tool and then faced off the barrel.

The range rod will only go into the barrel about 2" with a tight fitting pilot on the range rod.

The range rod is extremely solid. No detectable movement in the bore.

Where ever I measure on the rod, I get the same measurement...........Zero runout. If I traverse the carriage with the indicator on top of the range rod, I get zero indication.

I think I just lucked out and got one hell of a straight bored barrel.............
 
1. Pacific Tool & Gauge Inc. - Range Rods, Indicator Rods & Range Rods
*Indicator Rods and Range Rods are caliber specific. *Indicator Rods and Range Rods use removable bushings just as our reamers do. *Indicator Rods are for dialing in prechambered or rechambered barrels. *Range Rods are for unchambered barrels. *The Indicator Rods and Range Rods are 6 inches in length and are available for all calibers.
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/products/gaugesnbushings/indicatorrods.htm

Gordy calls them Range Rods and Pacific Tool & Gauge sells them as Range Rods.
Anyway the point is to tru the to be chambered barrel to zero for the first 4" to 5" so the chamber is aligned with the bore. If you have the barrel OD turned by the barrel maker off the bore this will center the bore to the OD. After you have aligned the first 4" to 5" and chambered the barrel you can put an ind. at the spider end and measure the curvature of the bore and mark it so you can locate that position to 12:00 O'clock when setting the headspace. This can be tricky to do but it can be done. When you think about this curvature obviously you never want this to be curving sideways 9:00 or 3:00 O' clock and we are fighting gravity anyway so why have the curve going down 6:00 O' clock so the best position for this curvature is as close to 12:00 O' as possible. Gordy has told me he has found barrel curvature ranging from 0.024" to 0.042", The Kreiger barrel I just finished had 0.021". I also do think Kreiger is a very good barrel maker, I have never been disapointed with their work.
 
Reading on down on that link, you'll find what Gordy uses.
"Grizzly Rods

These rods are 13 inches long and are the same rods used at Gordy's Gunshop and in the Grizzly Gunsmithing Video.

*Grizzly rods are not caliber specific, they come in 20 Caliber, #1, #2, and #3.

*The grizzly rods take our standard bushings, the #1 rod takes 22 cal to 6mm.

*The #2 rod takes 25 cal to 7mm.

*The #3 rod takes 30 cal and up."

Jim
 
I don't understand why anyone would call a 13 inch long rod, made to use removable pilots, in a lathe with an indicator measuring in ten thousands of an inch, a 'range' rod. Does anyone use these at a range?

They are all 'indicator' rods in my mind... just with different methods.
 
RoyB said:
Thanks Bob,

That describes the method I was using perfectly. The tail stock is not involved in any way. Simply a barrel in the headstock, I cut 1/4" off the chamber end with a parting tool and then faced off the barrel.

The range rod will only go into the barrel about 2" with a tight fitting pilot on the range rod.

The range rod is extremely solid. No detectable movement in the bore.

Where ever I measure on the rod, I get the same measurement...........Zero runout. If I traverse the carriage with the indicator on top of the range rod, I get zero indication.

I think I just lucked out and got one hell of a straight bored barrel.............
Click to expand...

Roy, I've got a few amazingly straight bbls from Krieger. Superb product.

Broughton bbls are also very straight, at least the dozen or so of them I've had in the lathe.

Ben
 
The last 2 Kriegrs I've done were straight. May be trying harder??
 
I had Jon Beanland call me up and tell me that a Brux barrel i had sent him was one of the straightest barrels he had ever seen. That was about 6months back. Lee
 
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