More on the lead remover:

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
Mounted a new barrel on both my Hall Sporter and my Turbo 10.5 rifle the other day. Both barrels were clean when I left Maine, having used the Lead Out . So, I shot them both the other day testing and tuning and was able to get both of them clean easily with Patch Out and the Lead Out. There was no lead visible in the Shilen Sporter barrel but there was a streak on the bottom land of the Rock Creek, probably 1/2" long. It also collected a bunch of carbon in the throat vs the Shilen.
I had shot perhaps 20 shots through the Shilen and perhaps 50 through the Rock Creek.

I had polished the throats of both chambers, removing the radial chip marks that are most commonly seen and both were shiny. Both chambers have my new chambers from the 1* 3 min reamer, .720" deep measured with my gauge. I though the carbon deposit was interesting with the extra 30 or so shots.

Bottom line is, after the prescribed waiting period, the lead streak was removed per the claim in their adverts. SO far, the Patch Out and Lead Out appears to be a great combination.

Pete
 
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Quite interesting. I have a question for you Pete. Do you think there is a chance that your leading might, just might, be an unintended side effect of whatever/however polishing was applied???
 
Hello Pete,

A few years ago, while attending a PSL match in St. Louis, Bob Finger and I were planning to have dinner at a little Asian restaurant, that Bob enjoyed go too. While we were still in the hotel lobby, in walks Dan Muller, owner of MullerWorks barrels whom Bob introduced me too. Bob asked Dan to join us for dinner and Dan took us up on the offer. I was elated, because I was the proud owner of two Muller 4 MI barrels ... one of which was installed on a rifle I would use in competition.

During dinner, I asked Dan about his taper lapping process, and to what extent does he finish polishing the bore. While he was hesitant to say exactly what his process was because it is proprietary, he did state that if one uses to fine a grit of lapping / polishing compound, the barrel will not shoot. In other words, it's been his experience that highly polished bores are detrimental to accuracy, at least in rimfire barrels, but he did not elaborate as to why that is so. Don't hold me to this, because I'm not getting any younger ... but if I recall right, the grit he mostly uses is in the 180 to 240 range.

I have never lapped a rimfire barrel in my life, and don't pretend to be an expert. But, even Calfee has spoken about removing glaze from a barrel that has stopped shooting. So, it is possible that you may have over polished the bore, and it now has a tendency to lead up quickly, with very few rounds fired.

John
 
tim said:
Quite interesting. I have a question for you Pete. Do you think there is a chance that your leading might, just might, be an unintended side effect of whatever/however polishing was applied???
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Pretty sure it isn't. I didn't touch where the leading occurred.

Pete
 
Pretty much what I have gleaned over time

center22 said:
Hello Pete,

A few years ago, while attending a PSL match in St. Louis, Bob Finger and I were planning to have dinner at a little Asian restaurant, that Bob enjoyed go too. While we were still in the hotel lobby, in walks Dan Muller, owner of MullerWorks barrels whom Bob introduced me too. Bob asked Dan to join us for dinner and Dan took us up on the offer. I was elated, because I was the proud owner of two Muller 4 MI barrels ... one of which was installed on a rifle I would use in competition.

During dinner, I asked Dan about his taper lapping process, and to what extent does he finish polishing the bore. While he was hesitant to say exactly what his process was because it is proprietary, he did state that if one uses to fine a grit of lapping / polishing compound, the barrel will not shoot. In other words, it's been his experience that highly polished bores are detrimental to accuracy, at least in rimfire barrels, but he did not elaborate as to why that is so. Don't hold me to this, because I'm not getting any younger ... but if I recall right, the grit he mostly uses is in the 180 to 240 range.

I have never lapped a rimfire barrel in my life, and don't pretend to be an expert. But, even Calfee has spoken about removing glaze from a barrel that has stopped shooting. So, it is possible that you may have over polished the bore, and it now has a tendency to lead up quickly, with very few rounds fired.

John
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Over time, there have been a few tidbits written on here about lapping compounds, etc. and why I pretty much have gravitated to 180 for the touch ups I do.

Yes, calfee has pretty much said the same thing, over time. I did not use lapping compound to polish these chambers, by the way. Being a believer in sharing everything I do, I used crocus cloth on a split dowel, and very little if it. I did not leave a mirror finish there. I simply wanted to blend the lead of the chamber and to take the chip scratches off. I am considering rigging up a muzzle flush system to try to eliminate the chip scratches. I know they are sold and used by folks. Only because I want a project, by the way. With the few barrels I will be doing for the rest of my life, it is hardly worth it, I suppose but if I were doing them commercially, I would have been all over it before now.

Pete
 
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Doug said:
OH NO - The old Water in the Barrel problem! :confused:
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In point of fact, I believe the complete reference would be "what the hell is in the water up there ?" , but I digress, carry on.

Besides, water in the barrel does not cause leading...well except for maybe Pete.
 
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Not much to it

todde said:
Mr. Wass, Id like to here more about the system your thinking of using. Todd
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Greg Tennel has been selling one for years. I think something as simple as a bottle that can be charged with air and a swivel connection for the tubing in the bore. I have seen pictures of something similar. Perhaps someone who uses one will post some pictures. There is nothing unique or new about muzzle flush systems. Perhaps there are a few people who don't know about them but that is hard to believe.

Pete
 
Pete Wass said:
Greg Tennel has been selling one for years. I think something as simple as a bottle that can be charged with air and a swivel connection for the tubing in the bore. I have seen pictures of something similar. Perhaps someone who uses one will post some pictures. There is nothing unique or new about muzzle flush systems. Perhaps there are a few people who don't know about them but that is hard to believe.

Pete
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Umm, I think you might be typing to fast Pete.
This is the lead remover thread in which todde was questioning your Patch Out/Lead Out technique.
You maybe had a senior moment & was thinking he was talking about a lathe flushing system from the other thread?
Stay outa the hot sun!
;)
Keith
 
Lay it off to a Senior Moment Keith although it was 90* in Daytona yesterday

linekin said:
Umm, I think you might be typing to fast Pete.
This is the lead remover thread in which todde was questioning your Patch Out/Lead Out technique.
You maybe had a senior moment & was thinking he was talking about a lathe flushing system from the other thread?
Stay outa the hot sun!
;)
Keith
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Beats the alternatives, senior moments :).

Pete
 
Sorry todde

todde said:
Mr. Wass, Id like to here more about the system your thinking of using. Todd
Click to expand...

I somehow heard or saw a reference to a solvent named Lead Out. Since I am one of the few who either know of or will admit to seeing lead in their barrels and realizing that accumulated lead does deter accuracy, I was searching for years for a solvent that would remove lead, post haste. SO, I tried many things, none of which gave me the post haste results until the Lead Out. The purveyor of Lead Out prescribes Patch Out to remove the Lead Out as it apparently is rugged!

SO, I buys me a bottle of each and sure enough, it seems to work. The Patch Out also seems to be a danged good solvent for cleaning carbon and wax.

Some folks seem to be fortunate in not having cleaning problems and I envy them but that has not been my experience in shooting, for the most part. Either some folks re-barrel a lot or I have been dealt bad cards, don't know which but I think I have had my share of bad cards. I am optimistic that the two new barrels I have just screwed on will be the kind that only need patches and a hint of solvent now and again :).

Pete
 
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center22 said:
Hello Pete,

A few years ago, while attending a PSL match in St. Louis, Bob Finger and I were planning to have dinner at a little Asian restaurant, that Bob enjoyed go too. While we were still in the hotel lobby, in walks Dan Muller, owner of MullerWorks barrels whom Bob introduced me too. Bob asked Dan to join us for dinner and Dan took us up on the offer. I was elated, because I was the proud owner of two Muller 4 MI barrels ... one of which was installed on a rifle I would use in competition.

During dinner, I asked Dan about his taper lapping process, and to what extent does he finish polishing the bore. While he was hesitant to say exactly what his process was because it is proprietary, he did state that if one uses to fine a grit of lapping / polishing compound, the barrel will not shoot. In other words, it's been his experience that highly polished bores are detrimental to accuracy, at least in rimfire barrels, but he did not elaborate as to why that is so. Don't hold me to this, because I'm not getting any younger ... but if I recall right, the grit he mostly uses is in the 180 to 240 range.

I have never lapped a rimfire barrel in my life, and don't pretend to be an expert. But, even Calfee has spoken about removing glaze from a barrel that has stopped shooting. So, it is possible that you may have over polished the bore, and it now has a tendency to lead up quickly, with very few rounds fired.

John
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A friend has a top performing rimfire benchrest rifle that has shot a number of perfect scores. He holds registered matches on a very nice range on the family farm. The original barrel that still shoots well (He has tried others on the same rifle.) has well over 100,000 rounds fired and his maintenance has never involved any relapping. He has learned to do some "conditioning" but that does not involve a lap or anything that is at all coarse. I know that barrels are individuals, in what they need and what they may like. My point is to furnish another bit of information, not to contradict anyone.
 
Boyd Allen said:
A friend has a top performing rimfire benchrest rifle that has shot a number of perfect scores. He holds registered matches on a very nice range on the family farm. The original barrel that still shoots well (He has tried others on the same rifle.) has well over 100,000 rounds fired and his maintenance has never involved any relapping. He has learned to do some "conditioning" but that does not involve a lap or anything that is at all coarse. I know that barrels are individuals, in what they need and what they may like. My point is to furnish another bit of information, not to contradict anyone.
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So, as far as you know, has Joe ever needed to remove leading from said barrel?
 
A friend sent an email

last week after reading this thread. He said that in the past,( he has been out of RF BR for a few years) folks where he comes from were polishing some or all of their barrels to a mirror finish in an effort to avoid leading. I have been mulling that over and haven't come to any conclusions yet.

Calfee wrote that barrels glaze over and need to be re-lapped when the accuracy falls off. I don't know what to make of that either. I do know the three barrels I have been shooting over the past several years all lead up over time, I could see it on patches and with my bore scope. It is immaterial to me what others believe, I merely want my rifles to shoot well and to that end, I will do whatever I must to get there.

Pete
 
You can mull over any infinate number of possibilities but perhaps at this late stage of your rimfire career you should include the fact that the producers of match grade barrels leave the particular finish they do for very good reasons..
That "deglazing" you refer to...... That is his attempt to replicate that finish and it's structure, needed to properly distribute lube throughout the bore, while you, friend Pete, are passing him going the other way.
 
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