Methods for imperfect benches

F

feffer

Member
There are only imperfect wood benches at my local ranges. I push around on them before starting and shim a leg if needed, but any uneven pressure affects the POI. For PPC, I shoot free-recoil even on good concrete benches and don't put any sort of pressure on them, but for heavy recoiling guns like a 308, it's harder. In the past, I shot Hunter Bench using free recoil even with the 308 using a heavy shoulder pad pinned on my jacket and a pad on my middle finger which got rapped by the trigger guard during recoil. But I think most people who shoot heavier recoiling guns use a firm hold at least to the cheek and shoulder (free in the front bag). I would like to do this but don't know how to square a firm hold to a wood bench. Wondering how others deal with wood benches with "movement."
 
I position my body so that I have the best ability to steady things (me, bench,& rifle)with both feed planted firmly, shoulder the rifle, put the palm of my hand on the front of my rear bag, with my thumb on one side of the base of the ears, and two fingers on the other. Pull the rifle into my rifle into my shoulder lightly with the second and third fingers of my trigger hand, try to keep my cheek off of the stock, or only making slight consistent contact. Just before I grab the rear bag, after settling the rifle in both bags, I use my front rest to put my cross hairs a half inch high and centered. When I grip the bag and shoulder the butt, I squeeze the base of the ears to finalize my aim, and squeeze off the shot, paying a lot of attention to follow through so that I do not change any part of my position until at least a half second after the rifle discharges. I also take pains to squeeze the trigger, and not be tempted to move too quickly to catch a fleeting condition. One of the ranges that I shoot at has very wobbly wood benches, and the other have benches that do not move at all, even when leaned on quite heavily. For the wobbly benches, I quickly came to the conclusion that shooting free was not the best approach. Luckily, most of the shooting that I have done, before I had benchrest equipment, was shouldering the rifle and squeezing the bag, and I can bring the cross hairs to a full stop that way even from an unsteady bench.
 
In the case that I was speaking of, they are all wobbly...bad design, well weathered. They are not tied to the slab, or braced below the top frame.
 
I am going to take a right

feffer said:
There are only imperfect wood benches at my local ranges. I push around on them before starting and shim a leg if needed, but any uneven pressure affects the POI. For PPC, I shoot free-recoil even on good concrete benches and don't put any sort of pressure on them, but for heavy recoiling guns like a 308, it's harder. In the past, I shot Hunter Bench using free recoil even with the 308 using a heavy shoulder pad pinned on my jacket and a pad on my middle finger which got rapped by the trigger guard during recoil. But I think most people who shoot heavier recoiling guns use a firm hold at least to the cheek and shoulder (free in the front bag). I would like to do this but don't know how to square a firm hold to a wood bench. Wondering how others deal with wood benches with "movement."
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angle solution to the problem. Why not start a fund to fix the benches by making them ALL CONCRETE? Why fight a losing battle by trying to deal with a crap set of tools ( wooden benches). Because that is what you are talking about. Bad tools make bad parts.

It really does not take that much money to build a few solid, sturdy, concrete benches. Just time and few backs willing to help. 12 half blocks, a couple of tubes of Vulkem and some re-rod will make the legs. Less than 1 yard of concrete will make the top and fill the space in the 1/2 blocks.

David
 
You can get free concrete most days. Just call your local concrete company. Tell them what you need the concrete for. "Non Profit Firearms Club". :D
But, be ready with all the forms pre made. plastic on the bottom.
This idea was used at the Holton Gun club. 60 benches cost $20. But, Bob Jr. and his son in law were ready each day. These are real nice benches.
They hosted the NBRSA Nationals this year and IBS Nationals last year.
I bet there is a concrete/brick layer in your club...........
 
zippy06 said:
You can get free concrete most days. Just call your local concrete company. Tell them what you need the concrete for. "Non Profit Firearms Club". :D
But, be ready with all the forms pre made. plastic on the bottom.
This idea was used at the Holton Gun club. 60 benches cost $20. But, Bob Jr. and his son in law were ready each day. These are real nice benches.
They hosted the NBRSA Nationals this year and IBS Nationals last year.
I bet there is a concrete/brick layer in your club...........
Click to expand...
As many of you are aware, there's a lot of politics at gun (and other) clubs; some are little fiefdoms. I could tell a lot of stories. I would love concrete benches, but they aren't going to happen. And as Boyd said, it's not an option to "move to the next bench," as they are the same. Many shooters really do have to deal with less than ideal benches. I appreciate the tips.

And yeah, I know I've been posting a lot. After a ten year break, I have a bit of catching up to do ;)
 
One range

We IBS score Benchrest on used to have all wooden benches. Some were more stable than others but all of them would shift POA if you put any stress on them by leaning into or on them. The range finally got a president who took it on himself to do an upgrade to concrete benches. The club members made the form and poured the tops and assembled them to the uprights. Many of us shooters donated to help offset the cost. The result was 12 very nice and quite stable concrete benches.
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Maybe try to preload the bench with your leg or body somehow
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If you shoot the St Louis Gun Club, look through the scope on a rail or a tight bag gun setup, then lean against the bench. Those thick topped concrete benches are on large concrete pillars but they used something like rubber as a buffer between the bench top and the pillars. You don't have to lean hard at all to move the POA at 100 about an inch or so.

The Canastota NY club did have benches with wooden tops but they were very stable. That is probably where the "super feet" some shooters use came from. We shot IBS nationals there a couple of times and some of the guys made up super feet for teir rails.
 
I see lots of solutions that assume the problem doesn't have to be fixed, right now, but I've shot on a couple of nice ranges during a match where the bench top was loose...Worse than that, really..more like the top was on bearing, or something. Once was even at at national championship match!
That day, the bench bit me pretty bad. I don't fault anyone but myself, because I caught it being loose before I started shooting.

Conditions were horrible! In fact, it was when hurricane Ike came from the gulf(I think), all the way to the Great Lakes. We were shooting 200 yards in 35-40mph winds, and it was somewhat switchy. I simply got caught up in the condition and forgot all about the bench top being loose. It was "part of the game" that you aren't suppose to have to deal with...but it is what it is. I mentioned it to the match director then, and he apologized, stating that the range crew had checked them but it must have been missed. The way I saw it then and now, is that I knew it, and knew that if I did my part, it wouldn't matter. I just didn't do my part.
I fired the last two shots at record bulls after sighters and had a HOF shooter, Harley Baker over my shoulder watching. Both record shots went low and left....mostly left...and against the condition. I think it was on the last shot, Harley said, "it wasn't the condition!" I knew that, unfortunately.

That's when I remembered the loose top. :eek:

Poor gun handling is what cost me those two shots! If I'd remembered the loose top, which I DID on some of those record shots...on the last two...I probably wouldn't have gotten lazy behind the gun, and it wouldn't have mattered that the top was loose....but I did get lazy, and I did forget about the top...and it cost me. It was a tough day, to say the least. The conditions certainly contributed to my tunnel vision and lack of focus, but it was me that was to blame.

My point is, no, the bench issue should not be an issue...but if you handle the gun right, it's no excuse. You just have to pay particular attention to every detail where gun handling is concerned.
 
I have done a lot of research relating to benches at various ranges where sanctioned matches are held, and frankly am amazed that shooters would put up with inferior benches. Back in the day, the range that I later became president of, cooperated with the Visalia range, to produce forms to build sets of monolithic (top and base cast as one piece) cast in place, reinforced concrete benches. At our range, we built a new range for members only (leaving the old ones for fee per day shooters) that included 42 of the new benches. They are very sturdy, and you can lean on them quite heavily without any cross hair movement at the target. To me, putting up with bad benches would be like living with a bad trigger on a bench rifle. The range that I mentioned in my earlier post has approved funding for a prototype bench, that will have a very rigid steel tube frame, with the legs connected near their bottoms. I am currently working on that project, and hope to have it finished in a couple of months. For that situation, the benches have to be able to be moved, which is the reason for the design. Even so, I expect the prototype to be a great improvement over the current benches, and it has some features that are the result of my having a lot more experience than when we built the concrete ones so many years ago.
 
I would never ever attempt to shoot benchrest or work up loads on a wooden bench. Remember a .001" movement at the rifle usually equates to a 1/4" movement on target at 100 yards. I'd be wasting my time with that kind of a setup no matter how hard I tried to stabilize things. :)
 
abintx said:
I would never ever attempt to shoot benchrest or work up loads on a wooden bench. Remember a .001" movement at the rifle usually equates to a 1/4" movement on target at 100 yards. I'd be wasting my time with that kind of a setup no matter how hard I tried to stabilize things. :)
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In an ideal world...me either. What about my scenario above? What do you do if you're at a national championship match, 500 miles from home, and you draw a relay where that bad bench is in your rotation? You've got to make the best of it or go home, simple as that. Making the best of a bad situation was the point of my post. A bad bench will teach you gun handling...and/or cost you dearly. In my situation, I have very little doubt, that if I had done my part relative to gun handling, the loose bench top wouldn't have mattered...but I didn't, at that moment, and it did cost me. I thought that was the point of this thread...how to deal with a less than perfect bench. Undoubtedly, fixing the bench would have been the best solution, but it was not a viable option at the time. Bottom line, if faced with less than ideal benches, perfect gun handling is paramount, IMHO.
 
feffer said:
As many of you are aware, there's a lot of politics at gun (and other) clubs; some are little fiefdoms. I could tell a lot of stories. I would love concrete benches, but they aren't going to happen. And as Boyd said, it's not an option to "move to the next bench," as they are the same. Many shooters really do have to deal with less than ideal benches. I appreciate the tips.

And yeah, I know I've been posting a lot. After a ten year break, I have a bit of catching up to do ;)
Click to expand...

Run for office. BE an Officer of the Board, president, vice president,..........Once people shoot in concrete, they don't want to go back...........:)
 
My opinion is that you can't do anything to improve a bad bench or shooting from that bad bench. If you can fix it with some paper wads it ain't a bad bench. Try to do the same thing every shot such that the bench is the only thing moving and hopefully it will move the same each shot. A bench that's not stable is far better than a target frame that moves....but that's another story.

I actually had a wooden bench (about 45 years ago) that not only didn't move but you couldn't move it. My Dad tried to tear it down and ended up sawing the wood off even with the ground. I used telephone poles and crossties to build it and it was way bigger underground than what stuck out of the ground. Built it myself back when I thought big.

_________________________________________________

Came back to add that the bench I built may get bigger and stronger as the years pass. It was a helluva bench though!
 
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rkittine said:
Is there somewhere that I can get plans and dimensions for building concrete benches?

Thanks, Bob
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Hi Bob,
The benches are different at every range. used to have pictures of WWCCA. Holton Gun and bow(Bob jr.) Made then a little longer or he moved the angle cut.....
Maybe some one else. Drawing....
 
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