I added to the Loose primer pockets thread. I should of started a new one. All my loads are max for my 6x284. Today I maxed out with Re#17 Shinny ejector marks,stiff bolt lift. But loads produced 1/4 MOA at 100yds. 5th fireing of norma brass pockets are loose but upon closer look no leakage. I estimate I'm nearing a 1,000 rnds through this rifle with no let up in accuracy. Trued Rem 700 if I keep shooting these full throttle loads what is the worst that can happen ? Best shooting rifle I've ever owned.
Max loads are they hurting my firearm
- Thread starter Worker
- Start date
B
B. Harvey
Guest
Re17 is a fast powder for a 6-284. A slower powder, even at similar velocities should net an increase in brass life. Might increase eyeball life as well if you happen to push them one load to many.
V
vicvanb
Guest
Kinda like driving 80mph. You might do it all the time and live to be 100. Then again, some day you might come up on a curve you misjudge, or a bee might come in the window, or a tire might blow, or...
"The worst that can happen?" It is sometimes called catastrophic failure.
M
Max Shaffer
Guest
A friend
of mine bought a Model 14 U. S. Man'fd 303 Enfield action to make a magnum with several years ago. I delivered it to the gunsmith and watched as he did a magnaflux on it. It had several small cracks just from shooting thousands of 303 rounds. The smith refused to build a rifle on the action. The P14 was considered a very strong action and was used to build many magnum rifles on as the bolt face required no enlarging and the action was long enough to accomodate the 3.75 length cartridges. But many thousands of mild 303 rounds had resulted in several cracks the naked eye could not see yet. I believe you are doing the wise thing to back off a little. I realize that particular rifle had probably been used on the training range for many years and had many more rounds thru it than most civilian rifles will ever see. But each round expands the receiver a little and each expansion and contraction adds up. Max
of mine bought a Model 14 U. S. Man'fd 303 Enfield action to make a magnum with several years ago. I delivered it to the gunsmith and watched as he did a magnaflux on it. It had several small cracks just from shooting thousands of 303 rounds. The smith refused to build a rifle on the action. The P14 was considered a very strong action and was used to build many magnum rifles on as the bolt face required no enlarging and the action was long enough to accomodate the 3.75 length cartridges. But many thousands of mild 303 rounds had resulted in several cracks the naked eye could not see yet. I believe you are doing the wise thing to back off a little. I realize that particular rifle had probably been used on the training range for many years and had many more rounds thru it than most civilian rifles will ever see. But each round expands the receiver a little and each expansion and contraction adds up. Max
Metal fatigue
Well that's another good point. I wonder if I ought to have that done on my Bolt some time. In my business they use Magnaflux to check for micro cracks in welds frequently ....... Has any one seen or heard of a Rem 700 blowing causing a stripping of the bolt lugs turning the bolt into a missile passing through the shooters head or some thing ? Isn't that what those gas ports are suppose to minimize that possibility. But for sure I'm backing off the load ,why play with fire for a lousy 100 fps ?
Well that's another good point. I wonder if I ought to have that done on my Bolt some time. In my business they use Magnaflux to check for micro cracks in welds frequently ....... Has any one seen or heard of a Rem 700 blowing causing a stripping of the bolt lugs turning the bolt into a missile passing through the shooters head or some thing ? Isn't that what those gas ports are suppose to minimize that possibility. But for sure I'm backing off the load ,why play with fire for a lousy 100 fps ?
jackie schmidt
New member
Probably Not Hurt
Remember, the operating pressure on the Ultramag Series is above 60,000 psi. And that is with a case that has a larger inside diameter than the 284, so the bolt actually "sees" more thrust. The Remington actions are identicle in respect to the areas that hold the pressure.
Even in castastrophic failures, such as case head separations, things like locking lugs rarely fail.
If you are getting a shiney ejector mark on the head of the case, you are a tad above max. That is a sure indication that you need to back it down a little............jackie
Remember, the operating pressure on the Ultramag Series is above 60,000 psi. And that is with a case that has a larger inside diameter than the 284, so the bolt actually "sees" more thrust. The Remington actions are identicle in respect to the areas that hold the pressure.
Even in castastrophic failures, such as case head separations, things like locking lugs rarely fail.
If you are getting a shiney ejector mark on the head of the case, you are a tad above max. That is a sure indication that you need to back it down a little............jackie
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Another interesting response
Ok so my hottest loads of the day were 54.5grs of Re#17 behind the 90gr Nosler BT. I had significant resistance in bolt lift ,but no problem in ejection. I'm an Ironworker by trade so I know about various grades of steel and metal fatigue and flaws. I was told that the bolts on Rem 700s are brazed on ? Is that true ?I understand our brave marine snipers use a M-24 rifle that has a Rem 700 action now if the military likes then they gotta be tough. But a braze isn't a weld,a braze can break under vibration !!!! I mean could I be lifting on that bolt and have it break off in my hand ? That 54.5 load except for one damn flyer I had a less then 1/4 MOA going. The 54gr load was printing just as tight of a group. That Norma brass seems to cycle better through my rifle then Lapua. I was told that's because Lapua is harder grade of brass. Dang maybe I will get my bolt magnaflux !
Ok so my hottest loads of the day were 54.5grs of Re#17 behind the 90gr Nosler BT. I had significant resistance in bolt lift ,but no problem in ejection. I'm an Ironworker by trade so I know about various grades of steel and metal fatigue and flaws. I was told that the bolts on Rem 700s are brazed on ? Is that true ?I understand our brave marine snipers use a M-24 rifle that has a Rem 700 action now if the military likes then they gotta be tough. But a braze isn't a weld,a braze can break under vibration !!!! I mean could I be lifting on that bolt and have it break off in my hand ? That 54.5 load except for one damn flyer I had a less then 1/4 MOA going. The 54gr load was printing just as tight of a group. That Norma brass seems to cycle better through my rifle then Lapua. I was told that's because Lapua is harder grade of brass. Dang maybe I will get my bolt magnaflux !
Worker you know better!
C'mon man, tractor parts are built better than that.......The front of the bolt (locking lugs) and the bolt handle are brazed to the body. There are no strength issues, in fact the three piece bolt should take firing stress better than a one piece assy. I can't confirm this but logically the stress risers should be minimized and machining smaller pieces allows for better QC and fewer inclusions.
al
L
Larry Elliott
Guest
Re a P14 Enfield showing cracks from firing umpteen thousand rounds of .303 British, I'd have to say that the best of steels from 70 and 80 years ago likely can't hold a candle to modern steels. Heat treating has also improved through better control of temperatures and conditions used to heat treat parts. When I first got into guns MANY years ago "safety lugs" were a big deal, has anyone seen a "safety lug" on a rifle of modern design? Better steel, better heat treatment, and better design. Blowing up a modern bolt action rifle requires a special talent.
While using an old action to build into a rifle for a high pressure modern cartridge should be done with some caution, I wouldn't worry about loading a modern rifle to 60-65 kpsi regularly. Barrels might last fewer rounds and cases fewer firings, but why use a modern high performance cartridge and load it down?
While using an old action to build into a rifle for a high pressure modern cartridge should be done with some caution, I wouldn't worry about loading a modern rifle to 60-65 kpsi regularly. Barrels might last fewer rounds and cases fewer firings, but why use a modern high performance cartridge and load it down?
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P Corncob Bob
Guest
I once broke a bolt handle off a Remington 700 chambered in .300 Ultra mag upon attempting to open bolt by hand in a heavy bolt lift condition.
In theory there may not be a "strength" issue with materials used in bolt body, bolt lugs, and bolt handle, but apparently fastening of parts mentioned above was not of high quality, as bolt handle came off in one piece.
Your firearm is only as good as its' weakiest link applies here.
Gunsmith was able to braze bolt handle back on and in turn mechanically fastened with a screw.
In my humble opinion, heavy bolt lift (excessive bolt thrust), shinny case heads, loose primer pockets, and any other signs of high pressure are unsafe and should be avoided at all cost.
Others opinions may vary.
Old Cob
In theory there may not be a "strength" issue with materials used in bolt body, bolt lugs, and bolt handle, but apparently fastening of parts mentioned above was not of high quality, as bolt handle came off in one piece.
Your firearm is only as good as its' weakiest link applies here.
Gunsmith was able to braze bolt handle back on and in turn mechanically fastened with a screw.
In my humble opinion, heavy bolt lift (excessive bolt thrust), shinny case heads, loose primer pockets, and any other signs of high pressure are unsafe and should be avoided at all cost.
Others opinions may vary.
Old Cob
H
hecksf
Guest
Actually the Marines use the M40. the Army uses the M-24. But they are both Remington actions.
DR4NRA
New member
Quote:
In my humble opinion, heavy bolt lift (excessive bolt thrust), shinny case heads, loose primer pockets, and any other signs of high pressure are unsafe and should be avoided at all cost.
Others opinions may vary.
Old Cob
I have to agree with ya on this one Bob and give you a 2 thumbs up. Unfortunately too many people believe that you have to have max velocity to get good accuracy. I learned the hard way by ruining a very accurate barrel on a swift, when I sent it in to be rebarreled, I was told that that accuracy and velocity dont go hand in hand, try backing off 10 to 15 %. LO and behold at the 13% reduction charge I was printing groups that were better than I had ever gotten before, and alot less wear and tear on my barrel, more pleasing to shoot, and most of all a lot less money on powder.
I will pass on this true story, a little over 20 years ago I still had not gotten into reloading. A guy at my local gun shop did reloading as a side line, I had him load for me, all was well and good for about a year, but one day while out shooting some loads I had him do for a 41 Rem Mag, I had a very eye opening experience, on the fourth round I had a very sharp crack, was using a Past shooting glove, and it really hurt my hand. Shrugging it off like a macho guy will, I tried to pull the hammer back for another go, wouldnt move. My ears were still ringing, hand still hurt, took my glove off to inspect the pistol,I was bleeding where it split the web of my hand between the thumb and index finger through my glove. In the end it was discovered I had gotten an overload, Blew the thing up. I was damn lucky.
As of now my train of thought is to do as the manuals say and approach max loads with great caution. Any signs of over pressure and I junk the load.
DR
In my humble opinion, heavy bolt lift (excessive bolt thrust), shinny case heads, loose primer pockets, and any other signs of high pressure are unsafe and should be avoided at all cost.
Others opinions may vary.
Old Cob
I have to agree with ya on this one Bob and give you a 2 thumbs up. Unfortunately too many people believe that you have to have max velocity to get good accuracy. I learned the hard way by ruining a very accurate barrel on a swift, when I sent it in to be rebarreled, I was told that that accuracy and velocity dont go hand in hand, try backing off 10 to 15 %. LO and behold at the 13% reduction charge I was printing groups that were better than I had ever gotten before, and alot less wear and tear on my barrel, more pleasing to shoot, and most of all a lot less money on powder.
I will pass on this true story, a little over 20 years ago I still had not gotten into reloading. A guy at my local gun shop did reloading as a side line, I had him load for me
, all was well and good for about a year, but one day while out shooting some loads I had him do for a 41 Rem Mag, I had a very eye opening experience, on the fourth round I had a very sharp crack, was using a Past shooting glove, and it really hurt my hand. Shrugging it off like a macho guy will, I tried to pull the hammer back for another go, wouldnt move. My ears were still ringing, hand still hurt, took my glove off to inspect the pistol,I was bleeding where it split the web of my hand between the thumb and index finger through my glove. In the end it was discovered I had gotten an overload, Blew the thing up. I was damn lucky. As of now my train of thought is to do as the manuals say and approach max loads with great caution. Any signs of over pressure and I junk the load.
DR
Backing 10-15% off !!!!!!!!
My Max charge is 54.5 grs of Re#17 Backing off 5 to 7grs of powder ? If you were to compare a 6x284 Cartridge to a car it would be a Top Double AA fuel dragster.Not an economy car.So I bought it for its High Velocity potential ,not concerned about powder conservation or even barrel life Its a 1200 rnd barrel gun.But I of course have no time to load irresponsibly and realize possible consequences .So I will be backing off the charge by 2%
My Max charge is 54.5 grs of Re#17 Backing off 5 to 7grs of powder ? If you were to compare a 6x284 Cartridge to a car it would be a Top Double AA fuel dragster.Not an economy car.So I bought it for its High Velocity potential ,not concerned about powder conservation or even barrel life Its a 1200 rnd barrel gun.But I of course have no time to load irresponsibly and realize possible consequences .So I will be backing off the charge by 2%
Worker
Many here are not going to answer your question because nobody knows your rifle like you do.
If you loaded the 6BR cartridge at book max loads for the 107 grain bullets typically seen at 600/1,000 yard matches the cartridge would be a dead duck and nobody would shoot it.
The book max load for the 6ppc in the Sierra manual is 25..3 grains of N133.If you were to go on the centerfire forum and poll the top competitors I would say very few of them are using 25.3 grains as there maximum load when using N133.
Waterboy
Many here are not going to answer your question because nobody knows your rifle like you do.
If you loaded the 6BR cartridge at book max loads for the 107 grain bullets typically seen at 600/1,000 yard matches the cartridge would be a dead duck and nobody would shoot it.
The book max load for the 6ppc in the Sierra manual is 25..3 grains of N133.If you were to go on the centerfire forum and poll the top competitors I would say very few of them are using 25.3 grains as there maximum load when using N133.
Waterboy
Uniquness of our rifles
Its amazing how unique our rifles our.Brass also. This batch of Norma brass I'm using is really performing well..... Also when my barrel was new I thought the accuracy I was getting was just ok relative to the price I paid for barrel and gunsmith labor charges.( Also could of been I was stuck on V-Max bullets,I've since learn my rifle doesn't like them above 3,500 fps)Now as I'm approaching the end of this barrels life accuracy is phenomenal or I just know how to shoot it better.
Its amazing how unique our rifles our.Brass also. This batch of Norma brass I'm using is really performing well..... Also when my barrel was new I thought the accuracy I was getting was just ok relative to the price I paid for barrel and gunsmith labor charges.( Also could of been I was stuck on V-Max bullets,I've since learn my rifle doesn't like them above 3,500 fps)Now as I'm approaching the end of this barrels life accuracy is phenomenal or I just know how to shoot it better.
Doug Kennedy
Hemi Road Runner
Sounds to me like you gain lots of practice of shooting your rifle at man eating chip monks
Now back it down alittle and enjoy the rest of your barrel.