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DLH4570
Guest
How much more accurate would a mach chamber be, than a standard chamber??? in a 308 Winchester.
MColeman
Club Coordinator
I can't speak for others but I chamber a .308 hunting rifle exactly the same way I do a .308 target rifle and with the same reamer. It may be a misconception that a 'match chamber' is a special breed. They're all the same to me and assuming the quality of the barrel is equal the chamber should make no difference at all.
Butch Lambert
Active member
Mickey,
I tried to call you back twice yesterday.
Butch
I tried to call you back twice yesterday.
Butch
MColeman
Club Coordinator
Butch, I got the problem solved so no need to call. I'm in and out so much these days.
Many thanks, though.
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criver600
Guest
308
How much more accurate would a mach chamber be, than a standard chamber??? in a 308 Winchester.
Match chambers are more trouble than there worth in a 308. If you have a "match" chamber, new brass and a good set of dies (smallbase) you can keep them running fine, but half of the ones I've seen will not chamber all factory ammunition.
A Palma chamber will shoot as good or better with 155's to 175's loaded to around 2.800
How much more accurate would a mach chamber be, than a standard chamber??? in a 308 Winchester.
Match chambers are more trouble than there worth in a 308. If you have a "match" chamber, new brass and a good set of dies (smallbase) you can keep them running fine, but half of the ones I've seen will not chamber all factory ammunition.
A Palma chamber will shoot as good or better with 155's to 175's loaded to around 2.800
PT&G offers 4 basic 308 reamers
308 hunting gun reamer throats are .3095 to .310
308 match reamer throat is .3085 different neck diameters
for those who want to neck turn their cases.
308 95 Palma throat is .3085 with throat cut for 155 grain Sierras
308 Bisley throat is .3085 the throat is cut to meet the
Bisley rule.
each has its place. The basic difference in a hunting reamer and a match reamer is in the throat and or neck. There may be some subtle differences in the web. Match chambers are generally tighter than hunting chambers due to the need to be able to shoot a variety of ammo makes and bullet lengths in hunting applications.
Rustystud
308 hunting gun reamer throats are .3095 to .310
308 match reamer throat is .3085 different neck diameters
for those who want to neck turn their cases.
308 95 Palma throat is .3085 with throat cut for 155 grain Sierras
308 Bisley throat is .3085 the throat is cut to meet the
Bisley rule.
each has its place. The basic difference in a hunting reamer and a match reamer is in the throat and or neck. There may be some subtle differences in the web. Match chambers are generally tighter than hunting chambers due to the need to be able to shoot a variety of ammo makes and bullet lengths in hunting applications.
Rustystud
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criver600
Guest
308 Match chambers
Get the prints and compare. The match chambers I've encountered have been really tight at the base.
95 palma chamber with the 155 SMK palma seated to 2.800 will work with a 175 smk seated to 2.800. Same ogive.
Get the prints and compare. The match chambers I've encountered have been really tight at the base.
95 palma chamber with the 155 SMK palma seated to 2.800 will work with a 175 smk seated to 2.800. Same ogive.
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DLH4570
Guest
Thanks Guys.
I think I will start out with a regular reamer. If I don't like it I'll set the barrel back and try the match reamer.
(It;s FUN to expermint!!!!!)
I think I will start out with a regular reamer. If I don't like it I'll set the barrel back and try the match reamer.
(It;s FUN to expermint!!!!!)
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Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Have a reamer ground to a minimum no neck turn chamber for Lapua brass and a short throat... that will have all the advantages of any "match" chamber and will accept all brass.
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Rhys
Guest
I use the .308 Bisley Palma Reamer with a slightly tighter neck. the only other change I might have made to it will be to have the troat shortened a bit.
Mike Bryant
Active member
If you're going to experiment, I'd suggest starting off with the match reamer and then going to a sammi minimum reamer if you have problems with the match chamber. Sammi minimum reamers are usually larger on the diameter at the base than match reamers as they have to be able to chamber the largest of any factory brass. Match reamers are usually set up for a particular brand of brass such as Lapua brass with .002 to .003" clearance at the base on unfired ammo. If you go with the tighter reamer first, then you can open up the chamber with the larger reamer without having to set the barrel back. FWIW, I use the .308 M-852 reamer for most of my chambers. It seems to work well without having pressure problems with factory ammunition.
Easier to take of more metal off than putting it back..
Mike they just don't understand this concept. Many of these folks don't understand the difference in custom match chamber vs SAAMI Chamber.
Well folks there are Match chambers that are tighter specs so they align the bullet in the bore with tighter tolerences and fit tighter in the body so higher pressures can be used to develope higher velocity.
SAMMI spec chambers are universal chambers made just tight enough to easily accept anybodys SAAMI spec ammo. These chambers are what we would call universal. One may give up a little accuracy but gain reliable feed and function.
Most off the shelf factory/mass produced hunting rifles will only shoot 1.moa at best. Most standard military light rifles were made to shoot 2.moa.
Match rifles need better accuracy than factory guns to compete. This is accomplished in a number of ways. Higher specs, e.g. tighter tolerences, better materials, trued actions, higher quality barrels, custom chambers, in the firearms and the ammunition, higher quality bullets, brass, powder, primers.
Match rifles are kinda like race cars IE: stock cars vs modified cars.
Rustystud
Mike they just don't understand this concept. Many of these folks don't understand the difference in custom match chamber vs SAAMI Chamber.
Well folks there are Match chambers that are tighter specs so they align the bullet in the bore with tighter tolerences and fit tighter in the body so higher pressures can be used to develope higher velocity.
SAMMI spec chambers are universal chambers made just tight enough to easily accept anybodys SAAMI spec ammo. These chambers are what we would call universal. One may give up a little accuracy but gain reliable feed and function.
Most off the shelf factory/mass produced hunting rifles will only shoot 1.moa at best. Most standard military light rifles were made to shoot 2.moa.
Match rifles need better accuracy than factory guns to compete. This is accomplished in a number of ways. Higher specs, e.g. tighter tolerences, better materials, trued actions, higher quality barrels, custom chambers, in the firearms and the ammunition, higher quality bullets, brass, powder, primers.
Match rifles are kinda like race cars IE: stock cars vs modified cars.
Rustystud
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Stonewall
Guest
O.K. then we start here -.308 Win SAAMI print
Glenn
Saami print from the NRA book "Handloading" ISBN : 0-935998-34-9
Glenn
Saami print from the NRA book "Handloading" ISBN : 0-935998-34-9
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eww1350
Guest
What are you using the .308 for..?
DLH4570...I have no idea what you are using the .308 for..Hunting or accuracy shooting, but...I have a PTG .308 Palma Match Reamer..I have a friend that is a Police Swat member, and his Remington PSS (.308) did not shoot the dept. issue Federal Match .308 (168 grn) ammo as well as he expected...I set the barrel back .312" and rechamered it with the Palma Match reamer, and it really made the gun come alive...instead of .750-1.00" groups @ 100yds he is now getting .3" -.6" groups consistantly...
He was very happy with the chamber upgrade...
DLH4570...I have no idea what you are using the .308 for..Hunting or accuracy shooting, but...I have a PTG .308 Palma Match Reamer..I have a friend that is a Police Swat member, and his Remington PSS (.308) did not shoot the dept. issue Federal Match .308 (168 grn) ammo as well as he expected...I set the barrel back .312" and rechamered it with the Palma Match reamer, and it really made the gun come alive...instead of .750-1.00" groups @ 100yds he is now getting .3" -.6" groups consistantly...
He was very happy with the chamber upgrade...
jackie schmidt
New member
Conflicting Terms
As with a lot of things, the term "match reamer" can be rather ambiguous.
What many are really talking about is a "minimum spec" reamer, which tightens up the tolerances so that a loaded round just doesn't "flop around" in the chamber.
A match reamer, in my opinion, is simply a reamer ground to specific specifications to optimize the use of certain components. As an example, I use a "zero freebore" .269 neck 6PPC reamer in order to optimize the performance of the Bruno 00 Boat Tail in my combination, and to make neck turning a breeze. There is nothing special about the way Dave Kiff grinds it, it is no better, or worse, than any other top quality product as far as the actual manufacturing goes.
The Palma Reamers are designed to optimize the use of the bullet that is required for that discipline. I would assume that it is also ground to "minimum specs" for the reasons I alluded to earlier.
If I was going to get a 308 reamer for a quality custom Rifle, I would have it ground to optimize the fit of Lapua Brass, (hard to justify using anything else), with about a .060 freebore so it would shoot a fairly wide range of bullets from 125 grns up to about 168 grns. Unless you are into Benchrest, (with a capitol "B"), I would just go with a standard minimum spec neck, as the 308 Lapua Brass is just about dead nuts on as it comes out of the box.
Dave Kiff probably has such a animal on the shelf. .........jackie
As with a lot of things, the term "match reamer" can be rather ambiguous.
What many are really talking about is a "minimum spec" reamer, which tightens up the tolerances so that a loaded round just doesn't "flop around" in the chamber.
A match reamer, in my opinion, is simply a reamer ground to specific specifications to optimize the use of certain components. As an example, I use a "zero freebore" .269 neck 6PPC reamer in order to optimize the performance of the Bruno 00 Boat Tail in my combination, and to make neck turning a breeze. There is nothing special about the way Dave Kiff grinds it, it is no better, or worse, than any other top quality product as far as the actual manufacturing goes.
The Palma Reamers are designed to optimize the use of the bullet that is required for that discipline. I would assume that it is also ground to "minimum specs" for the reasons I alluded to earlier.
If I was going to get a 308 reamer for a quality custom Rifle, I would have it ground to optimize the fit of Lapua Brass, (hard to justify using anything else), with about a .060 freebore so it would shoot a fairly wide range of bullets from 125 grns up to about 168 grns. Unless you are into Benchrest, (with a capitol "B"), I would just go with a standard minimum spec neck, as the 308 Lapua Brass is just about dead nuts on as it comes out of the box.
Dave Kiff probably has such a animal on the shelf. .........jackie
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eww1350
Guest
There is more to a "Match" reamer than we have discussed on this forum..When I decided to order a .308 match reamer, I had a long discussion with Dave Kiff...He explained that he had been working with the U.S. Palma team to improve on the chamber reamer design..at the time I bought my reamer it was the 4th version..one of the things Dave told me was that a standard SAAMI chamber would have a small amount of taper in the neck from front to back to facilitate ease of extraction for a wide variety of commercial ammo..One unique thing of his match reamer is that the neck dimension does NOT taper from front to back..
I think Dave should be the one to explain the unique features of the Match reamer...IMO..he is the expert...
I think Dave should be the one to explain the unique features of the Match reamer...IMO..he is the expert...
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criver600
Guest
Match Chamber
Most "match" chambers are a holdover from when 308 was a benchrest round. Most dies will not touch the base.
Palma reamers had to chamber a wide variety of ammunition and work with a 150/155 grain bullet. The 95 & 98 reamers if you want to touch the lands seat a 155 smk palma or 175 smk to 2.815 oal. But you can set your seater to 2.800 oal and wear out the barrel. The Bisley and pretty much anything WTC chambers your oal will be around 2..775.
I'll put Winchester brass up against any of the other brands starting with Lapua.
Most "match" chambers are a holdover from when 308 was a benchrest round. Most dies will not touch the base.
Palma reamers had to chamber a wide variety of ammunition and work with a 150/155 grain bullet. The 95 & 98 reamers if you want to touch the lands seat a 155 smk palma or 175 smk to 2.815 oal. But you can set your seater to 2.800 oal and wear out the barrel. The Bisley and pretty much anything WTC chambers your oal will be around 2..775.
I'll put Winchester brass up against any of the other brands starting with Lapua.
J
J. Valentine
Guest
Well I have had quite a few standard factory chambers in .308W over the years but my present .338 neck tight base chamber from a reground standard reamer to accomodate Lapua brass is a fair bit more accurate than any I had before.
So I feel that if you are chasing extra accuracy then a tight neck minimum spec match chamber is the way to go.
Extra accuracy will mean extra work and extra reloading tools. There's no free lunch.
So I feel that if you are chasing extra accuracy then a tight neck minimum spec match chamber is the way to go.
Extra accuracy will mean extra work and extra reloading tools. There's no free lunch.
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Alan Warner
Guest
Reamer specs here for 308's constantly have, and do change over time
with the variations in bullet ogive form and measurements.
The "95" reamer has changed some five or six times for these very reasons.
There are also reamers here for all of the other 155 bullets on the market, except for Lapua. I have not had a request to chamber for the Lapua 155 in over 5 years.
All of my 155 chambers are a .242 or .243 neck.
I've just recently designed and put in use, reamers fro the new 155.5 Berger and the new 155 Sierra.
There where only seven rifles of the top 20 in the Palma at Perry this past week that came out of this shop, and 11 out of the top 20 in the over all agg @Perry among 155/308 guns. But, what the hell do I know?
I've not tallied the any, any rifles.
Alan
with the variations in bullet ogive form and measurements.
The "95" reamer has changed some five or six times for these very reasons.
There are also reamers here for all of the other 155 bullets on the market, except for Lapua. I have not had a request to chamber for the Lapua 155 in over 5 years.
All of my 155 chambers are a .242 or .243 neck.
I've just recently designed and put in use, reamers fro the new 155.5 Berger and the new 155 Sierra.
There where only seven rifles of the top 20 in the Palma at Perry this past week that came out of this shop, and 11 out of the top 20 in the over all agg @Perry among 155/308 guns. But, what the hell do I know?
I've not tallied the any, any rifles.
Alan
terry byler
New member
alan,you sure on that neck size for a .308??
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