DonMatzeder
New member
Go to any match and you will be offered a top shelf rifle to shoot off a top shelf rest with primo ammo and you will have a very good time getting beaten badly.
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newtron63h
Guest
OK well im not trying to start a war. I obviously did not know what i was talking about in regards to the common use of "benchrest" my appologies.
And I've seen that squirrel monkey......that little bastard can shoot.
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Hambone
Guest
Sad, but true. The game has become little more than a glorified high dollar kit race. Especially in the US.
Little wonder that at the top end it has become predominantly the game of old men.
The only way a shooting discipline grows and survives is if more squirrel monkeys take it up. A predominance of old men is the death knell of any sport.
DonMatzeder
New member
If it is just a kit race, how come, at the worlds, when using borrowed kit from the US, the Brits still get their hats handed to them?
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Hambone
Guest
Don
Even the high dollar kit needs time spent behind the butt, in order to get the feel. Although a certain UK school teacher managed to walk off with a first place despite the borrowed kit. I guess that must wrankle with a few of the home grown shooters that were there at the time.
IIRC the Tshirts and hats the Brits were wearing that week were handed to them(sponsored) by Eley.
Don't the GB Fclass team do the same to the US at the worlds at Bisley? Hand them their hats I mean, not lend them kit. Theres a lot to be said for home ground advantage............
Even the high dollar kit needs time spent behind the butt, in order to get the feel. Although a certain UK school teacher managed to walk off with a first place despite the borrowed kit. I guess that must wrankle with a few of the home grown shooters that were there at the time.
IIRC the Tshirts and hats the Brits were wearing that week were handed to them(sponsored) by Eley.
Don't the GB Fclass team do the same to the US at the worlds at Bisley? Hand them their hats I mean, not lend them kit. Theres a lot to be said for home ground advantage............
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newtron63h
Guest
way to take my self-served humble pie and turn yourself into a dick, well played sir.
Let's for a moment take into consideration that you've asked for advice and then chose to argue about most of it.
Also the F1 comparison was intriguing except for one simple fact, A Senna died as a result of a simple structural failure of steering control, so if you're going to utilize some kind of comparison to make a point, getting some basic facts straight would seem to make sense,no ?
why not, you pretty well insulted everybody that competes in BR shooting with your "hollow shell of competition" comment earlier. if you dont get it, fine, but then to insult the sport, your asking for it!
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newtron63h
Guest
it was speculation at the time that a steering component failed, yes. but has since been shown that a far more likely scenario, through on-board video and telemetry, is that the setup on the car(to try and compensate for the lack of diver aids) caused the car to bottom out, reducing rear end grip in a very fast corner, causing him to lose control.
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newtron63h
Guest
you are absolutely right, but in case nobody was paying attention
this was my last post before the a**hole started
"OK well im not trying to start a war. I obviously did not know what i was talking about in regards to the common use of "benchrest" my appologies."
the last two words being "MY APPOLOGIES"
in a civilized world that means ive admitted fault and am asking forgiveness. apparently there are a few people here that dont recognize that.
Newtron - My apologies as well. It seems that the days of having a semi-polite discussion are gone.
I do understand your question "What's the point?". Think of it in two, maybe more, ways. Suppose all the equipment at a given match is equal (it's never equal). The competitor that reads the wind best comes out on top - skill wins. Now, suppose the same competitor runs out of ammo and is forced to shoot something different at the next match and comes in last place - equipment wins. In reality, there is a continuous mix of such on an ongoing basis creating thousands of scenarios to the individual competitor. Benchrest matches, both rimfire and centerfire are won or lost well in advance of match day. It's a 24/7 competition for those that need to win. Alternatively, it's a lot of fun for those that attend for the quality of the experience. We all leave home with the expectation of winning but quickly fall back on the "fun" factor when things don't pan out.
I do understand your question "What's the point?". Think of it in two, maybe more, ways. Suppose all the equipment at a given match is equal (it's never equal). The competitor that reads the wind best comes out on top - skill wins. Now, suppose the same competitor runs out of ammo and is forced to shoot something different at the next match and comes in last place - equipment wins. In reality, there is a continuous mix of such on an ongoing basis creating thousands of scenarios to the individual competitor. Benchrest matches, both rimfire and centerfire are won or lost well in advance of match day. It's a 24/7 competition for those that need to win. Alternatively, it's a lot of fun for those that attend for the quality of the experience. We all leave home with the expectation of winning but quickly fall back on the "fun" factor when things don't pan out.
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newtron63h
Guest
i completely understand that what this facet has evolved into is a SPEC formula in alot of ways so much so that as long as your equipment is performing the way you have practiced, then any failure to perform lies within yourself. BUT in my opinion, the eccentricities of a particular firearm, being that no 2 act exactly the same, are what makes shooting sports so exciting and challenging and fun.
My idea of a benchrest competition is to show up with my off the shelf Win 9422 and $25 BSA scope propped on sandbags, while all other competitors have their bull barrel, match trigger, 10/22, cz 455, rem 597, etc........and get beaten badly, but still produce exceptional groups because the combination of my imperfect self, my imperfect rifle, and my imperfect ammo can perform near perfection. thats my idea of a benchrest competition.
My idea of a benchrest competition is to show up with my off the shelf Win 9422 and $25 BSA scope propped on sandbags, while all other competitors have their bull barrel, match trigger, 10/22, cz 455, rem 597, etc........and get beaten badly, but still produce exceptional groups because the combination of my imperfect self, my imperfect rifle, and my imperfect ammo can perform near perfection. thats my idea of a benchrest competition.
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MKane
Guest
Your a modest fella after all.
Well, God bless'ya, if there's a hall of fame for "gross misinformation" I think you're well on your way.
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Hambone
Guest
Newt
Good to see that someone has a clear grasp of the facts to base their comments on. Rather than the pure speculation that was doing the rounds after the event and then continued in the film of his career.
Also had the FIA introduced the suspension unit retaining wires earlier he would have survived the crash.
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SGJennings
New member
First, you wouldn't see any of those rifles in a RF benchrest match. They are far, FAR more demanding than that. You have to be committed to testing, tuning, practice and most importantly reading the conditions.
With your rifle, scope and setup, you'd likely be out of running on the very first bull.
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Hambone
Guest
PMSL What a schmuck...........
An informed and concise statement from Adrian Newey made in 2011.
“There’s no doubt the steering column failed and the big question was whether it failed in the accident or did it cause the accident? It had fatigue cracks and would have failed at some point. There is no question that its design was very poor. However, all the evidence suggests the car did not go off the track as a result of steering column failure.”
Perhaps Timmy, you would like to try and convince the man otherwise. I doubt that you would succede. LOL
As a last resort I suppose you could always adopt your prefered tactic and threaten him with some form of violence............. I doubt that would succede either.
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