Lathes

wnroscoe

New member
I'm in the market for a new Lathe and have been looking around a bit. I'm thinking 1340 to 1440 with a 1.5" spindle bore. Higher quality than the typical Chicom offering but not $20k good. I've found a few Hardinge Tool Room Lathes for $7,000 up but the 1.25" spindle bore seems a little too narrow. A short list consist of the following;

Sharp
Kent
Victor

Any thoughts or words of wisdom??

Thanks.
 
Sharp
Kent
Victor

Any thoughts or words of wisdom??

Thanks.

Yes, South Bend Heavy 10, the most popular gun work lathe among many of the top benchrest gunsmiths.

You say you are looking for a "new" lathe.

Don't expect to get a really accurate new lathe for the same price of a mid-priced riding lawnmower.
 
I'm interested in understanding why you believe the SB Heavy 10's are the best lathes for this work. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm genuinely interested in knowing the reason.

I've hear rumors of Heavy 10's with long beds, but every single example I've found for sale has a small spindle bore and a short bed.

If you could, tell me why the Heavy 10 has an advantage over a 10K, too.


Yes, South Bend Heavy 10, the most popular gun work lathe among many of the top benchrest gunsmiths.

You say you are looking for a "new" lathe.

Don't expect to get a really accurate new lathe for the same price of a mid-priced riding lawnmower.
 
I'm interested in understanding why you believe the SB Heavy 10's are the best lathes for this work. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm genuinely interested in knowing the reason.

I've hear rumors of Heavy 10's with long beds, but every single example I've found for sale has a small spindle bore and a short bed.

If you could, tell me why the Heavy 10 has an advantage over a 10K, too.

Lets start with the headstock bearings, the heart of a lathe. The SB has sleeve bearings like a precision cylindrical grinder. Granted, the spindle bore could be bigger but it will easily accommodate 1.350 barrels, a common size for rail guns.

The entire headstock is one big heavy casting, hence, rigidity like no ball or roller bearing lathe. Most small modern engine lathes have the headstock made as a thin waled box and many except the very expensive have cheap spindle shaft bearings. You can get a Monarch EE with great roller bearings, but replacements were $18,000 in 1992. That was the last EE's I sent to Monarch to be rebuilt before I retired.

You will hear quite a bit about chamber chatter or thread chatter. This is caused by that thin-walled box headstock.

Granted, too that the SBH 10 is no longer made but there are thousands of them parted out at used machinery dealers. The US Navy alone bought tens of thousands to use on=board ships since a SBH 10 can be easily broken down into small components that only weigh 100-150 pounds each.

Call most of the top quality benchrest gunsmiths and they will have at least one Heavy 10 in their shop to do the precision stuff.

A reminder, when the Heavy 10 was discontinued just a few years ago they sold for over $16,000.

As to the Heavy 10 vs a 10K, the 10K has a spindle bore of about 7/8" and a much smaller headstock shaft and bearings.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.
 
Roscoe, In today's business climate there are more machine tools available today than ever before. I get two to three companies closings weekly with the listings of their equipment for sale. The major players like The Surplus Record or Locator On Line have lists that are endless.
Check around and find the type of lathe you want and if you get a good deal you might have to only replace bearings.
Centerfire
 
Thanks. I wonder how many of the "Heavy 10's" I've looked at or seen advertised are really the lightweight 10 inch lathes. I haven't seen a single example advertised as such with a 1 3/8th's inch bore.

What I need is a positive means of identifying a Heavy 10 from a 10 inch or 10K lathe. I have old factory literature from SB and the info from Balolia's SB site, but I have yet found any way to make that id. My lathe experience is limited to the 10 inch machines at Trinidad, and I'm certain I recall the bed was marked 10K on the lathe I used, but all the 10 inch machines there have the 1 3/8th's spindle bore.

I'll ask about this at the SB forum at Practical Machinist. Someone here can chime in, too.

Lets start with the headstock bearings, the heart of a lathe. The SB has sleeve bearings like a precision cylindrical grinder. Granted, the spindle bore could be bigger but it will easily accommodate 1.350 barrels, a common size for rail guns.

The entire headstock is one big heavy casting, hence, rigidity like no ball or roller bearing lathe. Most small modern engine lathes have the headstock made as a thin waled box and many except the very expensive have cheap spindle shaft bearings. You can get a Monarch EE with great roller bearings, but replacements were $18,000 in 1992. That was the last EE's I sent to Monarch to be rebuilt before I retired.

You will hear quite a bit about chamber chatter or thread chatter. This is caused by that thin-walled box headstock.

Granted, too that the SBH 10 is no longer made but there are thousands of them parted out at used machinery dealers. The US Navy alone bought tens of thousands to use on=board ships since a SBH 10 can be easily broken down into small components that only weigh 100-150 pounds each.

Call most of the top quality benchrest gunsmiths and they will have at least one Heavy 10 in their shop to do the precision stuff.

A reminder, when the Heavy 10 was discontinued just a few years ago they sold for over $16,000.

As to the Heavy 10 vs a 10K, the 10K has a spindle bore of about 7/8" and a much smaller headstock shaft and bearings.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.
 
Thanks. I wonder how many of the "Heavy 10's" I've looked at or seen advertised are really the lightweight 10 inch lathes. I haven't seen a single example advertised as such with a 1 3/8th's inch bore.

What I need is a positive means of identifying a Heavy 10 from a 10 inch or 10K lathe.
I'll ask about this at the SB forum at Practical Machinist. Someone here can chime in, too.

This site might help' http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page4.html

If you go to the homepage of this site there is a bunch of older machine tools pictured and described
 
I've looked at the UK site several times.

Here's the method I learned on PM; the heavy 10's have a square apron, the light 10's have an apron the same shape as the 9 inch lathes. The feed engagement levers are also unique, the lever on the 9 inch lathes is flat. (I'll bet id'ing handles is less reliable than the apron.)
 
I would recommend the sharp 13x40. Made in Taiwan, spindle bore is 1 9/16", availlable with variable speed from 40-2000 rpm (just dial it in), short headstock for barreling through, a nice degree of travel on the tailstock spindle for chambering, and over all just a precision piece of equipment. Digital readout is a nice feature availlable on them as well.

I first encountered one of these at the NRA gunsmithing school in Trinidad. The director, Speedy Gonzalez pointed them out as a good buy.

I like the heavy tens to a degree, but they have issues. While working on a heavy ten, it never seemed stout enough to me. I've worked on Hardinge toolroom lathes that felt more substantial. In a lathe, mass helps maintain precision and dampens vibration during work. I also hated the short travel of the tailstock spindle. The tailstock felt like a toy when I used it.

With regards to availability, the sharp wins hands down. What I mean by that is you will be hard pressed to find a heavy ten which is "mint" and good to go for gunsmithing work. Most are old, tired and in need of work. The sad thing is that since the hobby market tends to like heavy tens, many people slap a coat of paint on them and sell them for exhorbant prices. In the end, I decided that I would rather work on my gunsmithing as opposed to rebuilding a lathe.


In the end, everyone makes their own choice.
 
The last statement in the previous post is so very very true. If a machine is not on the shop floor 90% of the time there is a reason why, just think Murphy. The Taiwan made units are about the best of less expensive made machine tools coming from that particular area. Sharp, Acer, Kent, another one that starts with and L in the Birmingham line are all about the same unit. Cosmetically they differ slightly all are built to a price point. Likely in the same plant. Years ago Popular Mechanics did a comparison of table top scroll saws 8 of the 10 units reviewed were mfg in the same plant, different brand names.
 
I looked at both sites above and unless I am doing something wrong, I did not see a single heavy 10 listed for sale. As a matter of fact, I only saw a very few lathes that might even remotely serve as a gunsmith type lathe.

I am not sure that it does a new poster any good at all to suggest that they should look for nothing but a Heavy 10 or a whatever. Most folks who come here and post wanting to know about lathes also indicate that they are new at wanting to use a lathe or that they have no machining background. To suggest that they go look for something that might take some serious machining background to determine if it is a good value is fruitless for these folks. A better suggestion might be to go look for a relatively inexpensive import machine that they can learn to run and determine if they want to do this. As a beginner, they are probably going to experience a crash or two before they get good on the machine. Its my opinion that they are better off learning on and / or crashing an inexpensive machine rather that a very high dollar one.

If you get a machine (assuming it is the size neessary to work on barrels), learn to use it, learn what it will do or will not do, and most importantly, learn some good machining and setup practices, you can do everything you need to do to build an outstanding benchrest quality rifle. Its not rocket science. It is lots of very careful attention to set up and machining procedures.

There was a good discussion of these issues back in this string.
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?46348-Lathe-decision&highlight=wilton+lathe


But, back to Wnroscoe's original question, Mike Bryant has a Kent lathe and he has posted his satisfaction in the past. You might search on his name and find the model he is using.

Joe
 
Last edited:
The Kent that I'm using is basically a copy of a Clausing Colchester lathe. The levers to change feeds appear to be the same arrangement as the Clausing. Mine is the TRL-1340V. I haven't had any regrets in buying it and is a very heavy made lathe. A quality lathe will cut any even thread on any line of the thread dial. The cheaper imports won't do this. For speed of use, it's definitely a plus as you don't have to wait for a particular line to come back around when threading.
 
I have the same machine as Mike and am very pleased with it. It is a very heavy 13" machine. The only issue i had with it was that the spindle bore needed to be reamed so that bushings could be used for bbl alignment vs a spider. This is easily cured Mike may still have the 1.585 shell reamer i used to bore my machine with.
 
winroscoe.....I own a Grizzly...my choice would be a JET....they are a step above in my opinion...
 
Well, I've been looking and reading on the web and trying to keep up with the responses here as well. For some reason I keep coming back to the Grizzly G9730 Z Series Lathe but the Kent TRL1340 does look good. I see that MSC has a very similar Lathe as the G9730 Z but they call it a 1340 Vectrax.

I definitely want a Taiwan Lathe over a Chinese Lathe but, there are so many choices they start to run together after a while. I did find that 90%+ of the lathes now are made over seas so it really makes you wonder.

I called Jet and asked where they're made.......China was the answer. I've spoken with several gunsmiths and the lathes used have been Grizzly, Jet, Birmingham, Victor 1440G, Kent, MSC and on and on.

Still looking...................still confused :confused: :confused:
 
I've been really watching this thread as I'm just about at the point I can get a lathe. I wonder why, other than China made, that you don't look at the Grizzly G0509G lathe. It seems to have better speeds, and bore size than the G9730 and it is just a larger hunk of iron for the same money. I've seen some good smiths using the G0509G and at least one barrel maker I know of uses one for there complete builds.
 
Kent's precision series of lathes are made in Taiwan. Their economy lathes are made in China. The TRL1340V that I have has a net weight of 2200 pounds. I think that the Grizzly G9730 is what Mickey Coleman uses. He uses one of their toolroom lathes, but am not sure on the swing dimension. The G0509G lathe has a 12" 4 jaw chuck. When you change chucks with it, a 12" chuck is going to be heavy. It may be heavier than most would want to lift. Of course, you can always build something to swing it away.
 
Last edited:
The G9730 and MSC Vectrax is what I'm now looking at, both are 1340 machines and 1,800ish #'s. They seem to be the same machine. Micky Coleman and Nat Lambeth both use the G9730 and have spoken highly of it.
 
Back
Top