Lathe progress

S

skeetlee

Active member
I finished my first fake tenon this evening and i am feeling pretty good about it, so i thought i would share. Its not perfect as my relief is a little longer than i would have liked. I made a minor mistake and had to cut the shoulder back a little. the cone turned out really well for my first time and like i say over all i am pleased. I am finding all this quite simple really. I really dont think it will be long and i will be attempting my first barrel. For myself of course. Just wanted to share. Lee

firstthreads005.jpg


Heck, it even fit my BAT action! LOL!! Making chips at least.
 
Lee,

Looks good to me man. I don't do thread relief's though, but what the hell do I know, I'm a newbie too, just drag that bit out fast. Dig in, you'll be fine. Nice work!!

Med.
 
Don't waste it..... next you can bore it, chamber it, thread the other end for a hunk of pipe and you'll have a fireform chamber for use with shottygun powder so's you can fireform into the air, no bullet.
 
skeetlee said:
I finished my first fake tenon this evening and i am feeling pretty good about it, so i thought i would share. Its not perfect as my relief is a little longer than i would have liked. I made a minor mistake and had to cut the shoulder back a little. the cone turned out really well for my first time and like i say over all i am pleased. I am finding all this quite simple really. I really dont think it will be long and i will be attempting my first barrel. For myself of course. Just wanted to share. Lee

Heck, it even fit my BAT action! LOL!! Making chips at least.
Click to expand...

Skeetlee I have been reading your previous post.. Congratulations your really showing some nice skills. There are a great group of guys posting in this section that will "take care of you".

If your open to a suggestion one thing that I have found:
Be very careful posting in other forums remarks like, "I am finding all this quite simple really". I have found it is a costly mistake to judge others by your own ability. What is simple for you takes some people 30 years to learn and this underskilled group will be offended by anyone that has a natural talent as yourself.

It's a piece a pipe and a stick- you will be surprised at the number of rifle experts that think they own a yet undiscovered levitating space shuttle.... jGEE
 
Fair enough. However, i haven't judged anyone, nor would i ever. If it takes someone 30 years to cut some threads on a piece of steel i think they better find something else to do. I guess what i should have said is this. I am quite pleased with the progress i am making. I have surprised myself, as i never knew i could do anything like this. There is still plenty to learn, and i haven't tackled anything all that complicated yet.
I think when something interest you, it makes it so much easier to put your hole mind into what your doing. I have worked hard all my life, and when i want something, i simply apply what i know. That being hard work. You are correct, the Folks here are great, and i call a many of them my friend. I sure didnt mean to offend, or belittle anyone, and if i have i truly am sorry. You caught me a little off guard with your suggestion jGEE, but thanks none the less. Lee
 
All of this is very easy! Each individual task is easy; the problem lies in that that are a thousand of them that have to be done correctly to complete the job. 42 years ago as a freshman in high school in basic metal shop to pass the lathe section you had to turn a shaft and cut an external tread to a shoulder without a thread relief. This thread had to pass gauge inspection and the teacher kept it. Then you had to bore a sleeve and cut an internal thread to a shoulder without a thread relief and this had to pass inspection with a gauge. Once the second part was complete then the teacher returned the first part, if the two parts screwed together and the internal and external shoulders made up solid, checked with Prussian blue you passed that section. Then you learned how to pick up a thread on these same parts and cut the same thread pitch to a larger and smaller thread diameters. It’s all very easy even a fourteen year old can do it! Oh yea we even got to grind our own threading tools!

Fitting and chambering a rifle barrel is a different story. There are ten thousand things that you have to do and each one has to be correct. When something goes awry and your “gunsmithing by the numbers” method fails it takes a real machinist to salvage the project, you ain’t there yet. When you have your $400 barrel blank spinning in your lathe and it all goes to heck in a hand cart and you post here trying to figure what in the heck just happened and how do you fix it please remember you said that “all this is quite simple really”.

For our Senior Project we got to re-barrel our own rifle and the deal was the teacher could not help you solve any problem or give advice period. If the rifle shot well you passed if it did not you FAILED!


Individual results may vary,
Nic.
 
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Hang in there Skeeter, ain't but a thang...... comparing the buggerup of a 400.00 barrel to losing a $50,000.00 pour in the details?........day after day????....... it ain't but a thang, ;) to a concrete guy a 400.00 fix is cheap education. Heck, a 4000.00 fix is cheap!


perspectives vary


LOL

al
 
There you go Al it’s a perspective thing. If a $4000 dollar fix is a cheap education, salute! But people get very attached to their projects after waiting months on reamers, actions, barrels, stocks and such. These items start to have some unreal ability to put pressure on people and the results are sometimes very bad. How many times have you seen folks wine about trashing a cartridge case? An expendable item with little value compared to the cost of using it for its serviceable life! I learned a long time ago when I opened the gun shop that you can say pretty much anything about a guy’s wife or girl friend but talk some smack about his rifle and you’ll start a fight! It is and emotional perspective thing and I hate to see someone set themselves up for a fall thinking that there is nothing to this gunsmithing thing. I encourage everyone to get involved and if so inclined open there own gun shop but please don’t think it’s easy

A $4000 dollar mistake is a cheap education, again salute. I guess I’m the president of a total looser company because we would feel a $4000 hit.
Nic.
 
Niccolo said:
There you go Al it’s a perspective thing. If a $4000 dollar fix is a cheap education, salute! But people get very attached to their projects after waiting months on reamers, actions, barrels, stocks and such. These items start to have some unreal ability to put pressure on people and the results are sometimes very bad. How many times have you seen folks wine about trashing a cartridge case? An expendable item with little value compared to the cost of using it for its serviceable life! I learned a long time ago when I opened the gun shop that you can say pretty much anything about a guy’s wife or girl friend but talk some smack about his rifle and you’ll start a fight! It is and emotional perspective thing and I hate to see someone set themselves up for a fall thinking that there is nothing to this gunsmithing thing. I encourage everyone to get involved and if so inclined open there own gun shop but please don’t think it’s easy

A $4000 dollar mistake is a cheap education, again salute. I guess I’m the president of a total looser company because we would feel a $4000 hit.
Nic.
Click to expand...

:)

Yeahh it is a perspective thing and one of the things I'm sensitized to is that BOTH sides have a perspective. SkeetLee is feeling good because he's going places he's never been, and he's excited.

I happen to feel this is important, we're all getting older, some of us maybe jaded even. It's sometimes hard to find stuff to be passionate about. Because he's excited he's saying what he feels.... for a guy this is perty big juju. Plus, it's HIS thread, he can say whatever he wants....set the tone however he wants. He's among friends. He's feeling good. He's having a freakin' BLAST with his new toy and he's happy and proud to be making chips successfully.

I love that.

And I'm happy with and for him.


I don't want to change the direction or tenor of the thread by getting sidetracked on "total looser companies" etc, it ain't ABOUT me, or you, but I'll r'ar up on my hindfeet and support any man who'll find pleasure in learning something new, taking pride in it and spending his time at home doing something constructive instead of off in some bar. Skeet's not talking about opening SkeetLee's SkiBall undt Gunschmidting Shoppe LLC, he's PROUD that he got his lathe to work. He's feeling a great sense of accomplishment and I'm rooting for him.

I've never met the man, except here. I don't have to, I respect and support the ideal....

So, instead of picking apart Skeets pleasure let me say again...... YOU GO MAN!!!! GOOD ON YA'!


Get 'ER DONE!!


LOL



BTW, I hope you can believe that I'm not "picking on you" either. Oddly enough I empathize with both perspectives believe it or not. I went to Gunsmithing School. I worked in three shops in MN and NH. I was a good 'smith for what I did. I lost everything in a gunstore fire and got into construction to get back on my feet, (our feet, wife and family) and yes, this did change my perspective.

I see no reason to negativise SkeetLee's joie de vivre...

(dude, I just bastardized my own word AND spake in tongues!)

Hallelujah, halleluia and hurrah the hoi polloi!!!

Only In America


al
 
Boy, I sure didn't intend for any of this. "When i said "this all pretty simple really" I think i was referring to an action wrench i had made, as well as my first fake tenon". The truth of that matter was that it was a fairly simple piece to make. There was really no master skills involved, just simple turning and a little welding " for the wrench". Turning the threads for the tenon had me a little nervous, i must say, But i made a plan and stuck with it. Sometimes i will go over my approach several times before i even turn the machine on. I think about everything that i know to think about first. I havent chambered a barrel yet, but i have made a lot of fake barrel tenons, and i haven't had any trouble yet. I haven't crashed any tooling, and i still have all my fingers. I would say i am making progress. I didnt mean to imply anything, to anyone about anything! I dont do that, and if you have read any of my post's in the past i think that would be fairly clear to see. I like what i am learning, and i like the people here. I like to share my stories with them. Thats all! I also dont believe in failing. To fail is to quit, and to quit isnt me. I may stumble a bit, but i promise you i wont fail. I really appreciate Al's comments, and he is right. I am simple excited! I just never knew i could do these kinds of things. I am making some measuring tooling now that is also turning out really really good. The tool i am building will be used to measure my cone lengths, from one barrel to the next. I had to do some blind boring and it was a little nerve racking at first, but i thought about what i had to do, I came up with a way to approach the task, and went for it. And it worked! Once i get it all finished i will post a pic. This tool would be simple for most here to make, but it will be my first, and that makes it special to me. See what i mean? I am not attacking or talking down to anyone. I dont even think along those lines, never have. Sorry for the stir. I dont know about the rest of the crew, but man oh man, i am ready to go to a match!! This winter stuff isnt as fun for me as it used to be! Take care! Lee
 
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Sorry to get all fuzzy over you Skeeter but dudes were pissing me off righteous! You just got caught in the overspray man.

I simply cannot stomach whining.... and you were just passing time, not even braggin' or nuthin'.....and besides "IT AIN'T BRAGGIN' IF YA' REALLY DONE IT!!! (Yogi Berra)


al
 
Let me squeeze in here without starting another ruckus. It is like walking, we all learn at different ages, and those that do not learn until they are three, may still win the Boston Marathon. Now, as a toolmaker who has had to cut a lot of threads, over 45 yrs., I would like to suggest that when/if you cut a relief groove to end either an ex/internal thread, that the near side have a 30-45 deg. angle to allow the thread crest to drop down gradually, rather than being suddenly thinned, and forming a small tail that can(DID!) fold back to lock the assy. together when you try to take them apart. This experience has taught me to take a narrow file to the last half turn of the crest on the external thread. I like to thread internal threads(rh), from a stop, outward on the back side, with the compound mirrored to the normal position. Some people jump out of perfectly good airplanes for an adrenaline rush. I prefer chasing 10-16 tpi to a shoulder, at 700-800 rpm. It has the same type of fear rush, but is not terminal if your reactions are a bit slow!
Regards,
Bob
 
Chip, is that your real name? Either way, love the handle. Now that's a machinist right there...Chip Soles--Mike
 
Not the real one, but I do know a guy named Dick Shaver! I think that I would rather be called Sue. How do you do?
Regards,
Bob(the real one!)
 
Chip Soles said:
Not the real one, but I do know a guy named Dick Shaver! I think that I would rather be called Sue. How do you do?
Regards,
Bob(the real one!)
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I'm just fine, Bob. Thanks for asking. I was in tool and die for several years myself...I knew you had to be when I saw your handle. Nothing like walking on chips all day then going home to a nice hardwood floor:eek:. I still make chips gunsmithing, but nothing like that of a true job shop. A pair of good boots wouldn't last anytime for me then.
Welcome to the board!--Mike
 
"I prefer chasing 10-16 tpi to a shoulder, at 700-800 rpm."
Now that's good stuff!!! I cant even imagine. I will stick with my dummy slot. LOL!! Welcome to the board. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
"I prefer chasing 10-16 tpi to a shoulder, at 700-800 rpm."
Now that's good stuff!!! I cant even imagine. I will stick with my dummy slot. LOL!! Welcome to the board. Lee
Click to expand...


And another thing skeetlee, some machinists are less than forthcoming in their explanations.......... forgetting to mention the retractable toolholder. Or the CNC kickout :) I know guys who set their dro to trigger a switch to stop the chuck using a brake. Very few people actually thread up to the shoulder while madly cranking the wheel out....and some of those that do have a practice of manually cleaning up the end cut when finished. A lathe cuts just fine when turned by hand too ;)

I enjoy and respect those who will share actual details, the devil's in the details.

LOL

al
 
Niccolo said:
All of this is very easy! Each individual task is easy; the problem lies in that that are a thousand of them that have to be done correctly to complete the job. 42 years ago as a freshman in high school in basic metal shop to pass the lathe section you had to turn a shaft and cut an external tread to a shoulder without a thread relief. This thread had to pass gauge inspection and the teacher kept it. Then you had to bore a sleeve and cut an internal thread to a shoulder without a thread relief and this had to pass inspection with a gauge. Once the second part was complete then the teacher returned the first part, if the two parts screwed together and the internal and external shoulders made up solid, checked with Prussian blue you passed that section. Then you learned how to pick up a thread on these same parts and cut the same thread pitch to a larger and smaller thread diameters. It’s all very easy even a fourteen year old can do it! Oh yea we even got to grind our own threading tools!

Fitting and chambering a rifle barrel is a different story. There are ten thousand things that you have to do and each one has to be correct. When something goes awry and your “gunsmithing by the numbers” method fails it takes a real machinist to salvage the project, you ain’t there yet. When you have your $400 barrel blank spinning in your lathe and it all goes to heck in a hand cart and you post here trying to figure what in the heck just happened and how do you fix it please remember you said that “all this is quite simple really”.

For our Senior Project we got to re-barrel our own rifle and the deal was the teacher could not help you solve any problem or give advice period. If the rifle shot well you passed if it did not you FAILED!


Individual results may vary,
Nic.
Click to expand...
if he is smart he will ask a lot of questions while he is setting up pics and all and there wont be a omg how do i fix this
 
Hi Folks,
I am one of the people who has no intention of trying to take my experiences to the grave. Now, as to chasing threads as close as possible to a shoulder, I will offer a few thoughts that I have learned by making poor choices. I try to position the handle of the cross slide to approx. 4-5 o'clock, and then make the final setting of the cross feed dial to "0". The next step is to bring the tool tip into contact with the workpiece, through the compound rest crank. Set that dial to "0", and you are ready to fly. The reason for the positioning of the cross slide crank, is to allow only an upward pull on the crank as the time of crisis is upon you.
The subject of picking up an existing thread can be tragic. I was taught years ago, to get the tool as close to the major dia. as possible, and then engaging the half nuts to get the tool in motion. At that point a piece of plain white paper is laid on the cross slide and the machine light is focused onto the paper, while leaving the workpiece in a nearly dark condition. You can now work on balancing the bright reflected light on both sides of the threading tool. This also makes setting the tool to a threading gage easier.
Regards,
Bob
 
On this cutting threads to a shoulder thing...
In the case of rifle barreling is it necessary or even desirable? We know that due to tenon stretch as a barrel is tightened, that most of the load is on the threads nearest the face of the receiver. If we look at the shoulder as a fulcrum, the free floated barrel as one end of the lever, and the tenon as the other, perhaps moving the working threads farther from the shoulder is a good idea. I know that there is skill involved in cutting threads right up to the shoulder, but in this case, could this particular demonstration of skill be a functional disadvantage?
 
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